Russell, I meant to comment further on your quotes.

Indeed, I think the more one looks the more explicit evidence there is for a kind-of stasis between the seventies and today. in spite of all the massive macro shifts.

And this stasis surely concerns ethics  - or, if you wish, strategic direction.

Maybe I differ from you in not assuming that 'power players' (corporations, national governments, global quango's) have any greater insight or control than does the incipient and emerging glocal population.

And this is in part because this glocal population forms also the ground for the emergence of those individuals whose interactions constitute those large organisations and institutions.

Of course there is (as there always was) a battle between good and bad, dark and light. But isn't one of the things we lear as we grow older, that these poles (eg good and bad) are in turn relative to our own life-experience. Indeed, Stafford would have said that this is pone of the reasons why such a model as VSM is needed - to provide a general social ethos which provides a very abstract umbrella of grounding for such intrinsic relativity.

My question remains as it always has been, whether the VSM actually might serve this human social function. But my personality predisposes me to want to say that something such as the VSM MIGHT do so. Else, as your comments hint, the pattern of recurrence goes on forever without any amelioration except on the very local level (as Luc indicates). Indeed, if this is one's underlying insight into human social living, then a model such as Checkland's SSM is a pretty good tool.

I suppose I just yearn for something more directional (if I can put it like that). But - like Stafford - I  yearn for this 'direction' without a 'purpose' if you know what I mean. It's the whole teleology thing.

To return to the comments you present - virtual caricature of democracy - yes. But from my perspective, the optimistic thing might be that such a 'virtuality' is becoming more readily visible by larger numbers of individuals and across more varied cultures.

Roger

On 3 Jan 2011, at 23:10, Roger Harnden wrote:

Yes.......


Roger
On 3 Jan 2011, at 23:06, russell_c wrote:

I received this comment in another place. Thought is was interesting.

"What has happened to the 60s and Kent State etc?"

We have become a virtual caricature of a democracy, with emphasis on the virtual. Just what our corporate masters intend.



On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 1:29 PM, russell_c <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
World might be flat -- but the debt is rising sky high.

How can this be sustainable?


UK students may be revolting, but US students just 'take another shift'?

What has happened to the 60s and Kent State etc?





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