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Dear Alfredo,

That does seem to make sense of what the book says!

On 22 Mar 2010, at 12:09, Alfredo Moscardini wrote:

> 
> Dear Roger
> 
> All I am trying to do is to make sense of what is stated in Hayles book.
> 
> 1.  I am presuming that what she says is true i.e. information closure
> 
> 2 This then raises the definition of Information
> 
> 3 Something  is allowed from outside to in
> 
> 4 I am just saying that can we agree to call what is sensed by the organisim is a datum ( or a distinction )
> 
> 5 Information is something different and observer dependent
> 
> Alfredo
> 
> > ________________________________ 
> > From: Roger Duck <[log in to unmask]> 
> > To: [log in to unmask] 
> > Sent: Thursday, 18 March, 2010 10:56:34 
> > Subject: autopoiesis and information flows 
> > 
> > 
> > I am puzzling over the following from Katherine 
> > Hayles’ book (How we Became Posthuman): 
> > 
> > P10: “In a sense, autopoiesis turns the cybernetic 
> > paradigm inside out. Its central premise – that systems are 
> > informationally closed – radically alters the idea of the 
> > informationalfeedback loop, for the loop no longer functions to 
> > connect a system to its 
> > environment. In the autopoietic view, no information crosses the 
> > boundaryseparating the system from its environment.” 
> > 
> > Again: “no information crosses the boundary separating 
> > the system from its environment.” This is a strong statement! Is it 
> > consistent with the VSM view? I tend to think of the loops between 
> > S1 and the 
> > environment, and even more so between S4 and the environment, as 
> > dealing with 
> > “finding things out about what is going on out there”. And Stafford’s 
> > second and third principles of organisation mention “channels carrying 
> > information”. 
> > 
> > Anyone want to help me though this conceptual jungle? 
> > 
> > Roger D 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Roger Duck 
> > Mapsar Ltd 
> > Founding associate of the Unlike 
> > Minds capability network 
> > 
> > Mob: +44 (0)7711 346 908 
> > Skype: roger.duck 
> > E-mail: [log in to unmask] 
> > 
> > Unlike Minds Ltd is registered in England and Wales under 
> > registration number 06528775. 
> > The registered office address is Plodwell Farm, Cragg Vale, Hebden 
> > Bridge, West 
> > Yorkshire, HX7 5TU 
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-- 
Regards,
 Trevor                            [log in to unmask]


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