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Does anyone have any information on the possible damage of solar winds/flares on the internet and communications satellites?

Frank

On 16 Mar 2010, at 17:43, Joseph Truss wrote:

Dear Doug, Roger,

Doug you say: for a couple of years I was working to build a start-up to provide a web-based marketplace of service-providing communities where one could earn shares by participating in accomplishments of the community.  That idea got put on the back burner, but I have recently become partners with a European consultancy who have a business model that supports something like this kind of community share-owning.  So, it looks like I'll be able to experience an experiment.  I should keep in touch on that, I reckon.

[JT] - I am very interested that you do keep in touch on that.  Is there anything you can share with us now?

Roger your comments about the impact of the Web is shared by most of us, I believe, and on the finer distinctions I hadn't noticed that there was little response to you.  Is there an unanswered call to be returned or a thread to be revisited?  

I agree that there will be significant conflicts between citizens and state and that the Web will play a significant role in the emergence of new orders, however, my fear is that in the event of a catastrophic failure in any of the highly interconnected and interrelated infra-structures on which we are life and livelihood dependent, we may be facing survival without the aid of the internet which is itself completely dependent on the infrastructure service we most take for granted - ie electricity.  There must be levels of recursion of communities that knit the virtual to the physical or the disembodied to the embodied which calls for survival strategies of building resilience and self-sustainability at the level of 'neighborhood' however that is quantified to meet the requirements of 'community'.

Best,

Joe
 
Joseph Truss
Team Syntegrity International AG/ Metaphorum / Abbey North Drummers



From: Roger Harnden <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 7:52:34 PM
Subject: Re: BBC iPlayer - A Brief History of Double Entry Book-keeping Episode 1

To answer your last point, Yes, of course.

I think I have regularly been making comments about the impact of the Web, in this forum. But had little response.

But your image of it as a kind of giant petri dish for ll sorts of innovations is right on.

One of the first  (and most disruptive) impacts will be on what Javier calls 'the state'.

I have no doubt that the significant conflicts of this century will be between so-called citizens and state. And I think citizens will prevail but only after much pain.

Roger
On 15 Mar 2010, at 23:34, Doug McDavid wrote:

Hi Roger --

Well, to state a bit more about my previously unstated expectations (wishes), what I have personally been looking for is a way to capture service contributions in a way that turns accomplishments into a form of capital, or property.  This was a concern because I have done a lot of consulting, and I can see the different values achieved by value pricing vs. rate-times-hour billing.  Value-based service requires the ability to perform consistently and effectively.  This is the human source of value.  This is when a certain kind of (non-commodity) value literally comes into existence.  

For a couple of years I was working to build a start-up to provide a web-based marketplace of service-providing communities where one could earn shares by participating in accomplishments of the community.  That idea got put on the back burner, but I have recently become partners with a European consultancy who have a business model that supports something like this kind of community share-owning.  So, it looks like I'll be able to experience an experiment.  I should keep in touch on that, I reckon.

As far as management cybernetics is concerned, it seems as if the web provides a giant Petri dish for all kinds of social innovations and manifestations.  Some could be studied.  Some even started.  If cybernetically sound designs start to thrive and gain notoriety in coming times, wouldn't that loosen the dynamics you mention?

On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:30 PM, Roger Harnden <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
I am possibly missing the subtleties of this thread, but I think you've highlighted an interesting point, Doug.

This concerns the number of times that discussions (and decisions) are totally constrained by unstated expectations rather than the actual parameters of the event/situation. I am not sure whether - as you say - this is to do with 'habits' as such, Doug. In Kuhnian language it's 'paradigms', in Foucaultian language it's 'episteme'. And the question for myself (whether in terms of effective action or of ethics) is whether an approach (such as cybernetics) can serve to loosen the ties of either paradigmatic of epistemic dynamics.

To be clear about this - it concerns both psychological and psycho-social dynamics. It concerns what one might call the 'unconscious of social thinking'. But I don't think this is to do with psychological dynamics per se (individual), but with social dynamics (capable of sharing - on in Weberian language, empathy).

And I always felt, but floundered, in thinking that cybernetics talks of this space.

On a more down to earth level, the above in effect means that I go along with your point as to the proven viability of banking systems that are not based on the western capitalistic model, and the insanity (social irrationality) of assuming that debt is inevitable,

Roger





On 15 Mar 2010, at 20:17, Doug McDavid wrote:

I should probably briefly clarify my original pointer toward Islamic banking.  I was partly supporting Trevor in his larger point that various cultural groups have a lot to learn from each other, and that it is too bad that old habits tend to stand in the way of such learnings.  But specifically I wanted to make the point that a banking system that is not based on debt can flourish, and seems to be providing a healthy antidote to the predominantly debt (and risk) based systems that have been experiencing such a crisis lately.  Aside from incidental cultural factors, it would be no mean feat to marry such diverse currency schemes into a common institutional architecture.  It just seems to make sense that mechanisms that encourage investment based on shared risk and reward are ones that encourage real productivity and ameliorate the tendency toward bubble formation.

On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Wright, Steve <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Clearing usually involves just a few banks so even if a bank has an ethical policy when it is involved in international clearing, it usually has to go via bigger banking systems. I have spoken with the Co-opís ethical policy bod and was advised that they have to clear many separate ethical issues in terms of accepting any financial commitment or partnership.  I am still ken to find new ways East and West could share a common approach to ethical banking but that is probably some way off because of what is perceived as official homo-phobia. So I guess the issue is not just Islamic banking practices which to me seemed well thought through but also existing customers perceptions of the tenets of Islam and the fear that they would react strongly to what is seen as official anti genedder neutral stances adopted by the Co-op. I hope I am wrong about this in the longer run since it would be marvellous if the cynicism people now have about the morality of modern banking practices was translated into a move towards more ethical banking but there appears to be a need for much more dialogue before that could happen.

 

Steve  

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stefan Wasilewski
Sent: 15 March 2010 18:22
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: BBC iPlayer - A Brief History of Double Entry Book-keeping Episode 1

 

I would really like to know what those issues were because I've never heard of them before but I can think of other reasons why Co-op may not was an involvement but just to be sure who are "their" in the text below, Co-op or Islamic banks? 

Sent from my iPhone


On 15 Mar 2010, at 15:30, "Wright, Steve" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Dear Doug

 

It is a useful point. I interviewed the Chief Director of a major bank in turkey a year ago about this and he said they had zero exposure to the derivatives crisis. However, their links to the wider world of international clearing banks were more challenging

 

I was intrigued by the possibility of such banks working with the co-operative bank here in the UK since they are based on ethical policies but hit an immediate glitch. The Co-opís ethical policies potentially clash with those of Islamic banking because of their corporate attitudes to gender which are seen as homo-phobic. Any alignment with an Islamic bank would lose depositors in the UK it was saidÖ.

 

One dayÖ.


Steve

 

On 15 Mar 2010, at 10:18, Doug McDavid wrote:

 

On that point, Trevor, and apropos WoW, etc., it is interesting to see
the results of the following Google search: "financial crisis"
"islamic banking"

 

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-- 

Doug McDavid
[log in to unmask]
916-549-4600
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-- 

Doug McDavid
[log in to unmask]
916-549-4600
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