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Does anyone have any information on the possible damage of solar winds/ 
flares on the internet and communications satellites?

Frank

On 16 Mar 2010, at 17:43, Joseph Truss wrote:

> Dear Doug, Roger,
>
> Doug you say: for a couple of years I was working to build a start- 
> up to provide a web-based marketplace of service-providing  
> communities where one could earn shares by participating in  
> accomplishments of the community.  That idea got put on the back  
> burner, but I have recently become partners with a European  
> consultancy who have a business model that supports something like  
> this kind of community share-owning.  So, it looks like I'll be able  
> to experience an experiment.  I should keep in touch on that, I  
> reckon.
>
> [JT] - I am very interested that you do keep in touch on that.  Is  
> there anything you can share with us now?
>
> Roger your comments about the impact of the Web is shared by most of  
> us, I believe, and on the finer distinctions I hadn't noticed that  
> there was little response to you.  Is there an unanswered call to be  
> returned or a thread to be revisited?
>
> I agree that there will be significant conflicts between citizens  
> and state and that the Web will play a significant role in the  
> emergence of new orders, however, my fear is that in the event of a  
> catastrophic failure in any of the highly interconnected and  
> interrelated infra-structures on which we are life and livelihood  
> dependent, we may be facing survival without the aid of the internet  
> which is itself completely dependent on the infrastructure service  
> we most take for granted - ie electricity.  There must be levels of  
> recursion of communities that knit the virtual to the physical or  
> the disembodied to the embodied which calls for survival strategies  
> of building resilience and self-sustainability at the level of  
> 'neighborhood' however that is quantified to meet the requirements  
> of 'community'.
>
> Best,
>
> Joe
>
> Joseph Truss
> Team Syntegrity International AG/ Metaphorum / Abbey North Drummers
>
>
> From: Roger Harnden <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Mon, March 15, 2010 7:52:34 PM
> Subject: Re: BBC iPlayer - A Brief History of Double Entry Book- 
> keeping Episode 1
>
> To answer your last point, Yes, of course.
>
> I think I have regularly been making comments about the impact of  
> the Web, in this forum. But had little response.
>
> But your image of it as a kind of giant petri dish for ll sorts of  
> innovations is right on.
>
> One of the first  (and most disruptive) impacts will be on what  
> Javier calls 'the state'.
>
> I have no doubt that the significant conflicts of this century will  
> be between so-called citizens and state. And I think citizens will  
> prevail but only after much pain.
>
> Roger
> On 15 Mar 2010, at 23:34, Doug McDavid wrote:
>
>> Hi Roger --
>>
>> Well, to state a bit more about my previously unstated expectations  
>> (wishes), what I have personally been looking for is a way to  
>> capture service contributions in a way that turns accomplishments  
>> into a form of capital, or property.  This was a concern because I  
>> have done a lot of consulting, and I can see the different values  
>> achieved by value pricing vs. rate-times-hour billing.  Value-based  
>> service requires the ability to perform consistently and  
>> effectively.  This is the human source of value.  This is when a  
>> certain kind of (non-commodity) value literally comes into existence.
>>
>> For a couple of years I was working to build a start-up to provide  
>> a web-based marketplace of service-providing communities where one  
>> could earn shares by participating in accomplishments of the  
>> community.  That idea got put on the back burner, but I have  
>> recently become partners with a European consultancy who have a  
>> business model that supports something like this kind of community  
>> share-owning.  So, it looks like I'll be able to experience an  
>> experiment.  I should keep in touch on that, I reckon.
>>
>> As far as management cybernetics is concerned, it seems as if the  
>> web provides a giant Petri dish for all kinds of social innovations  
>> and manifestations.  Some could be studied.  Some even started.  If  
>> cybernetically sound designs start to thrive and gain notoriety in  
>> coming times, wouldn't that loosen the dynamics you mention?
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:30 PM, Roger Harnden <[log in to unmask] 
>> > wrote:
>> I am possibly missing the subtleties of this thread, but I think  
>> you've highlighted an interesting point, Doug.
>>
>> This concerns the number of times that discussions (and decisions)  
>> are totally constrained by unstated expectations rather than the  
>> actual parameters of the event/situation. I am not sure whether -  
>> as you say - this is to do with 'habits' as such, Doug. In Kuhnian  
>> language it's 'paradigms', in Foucaultian language it's 'episteme'.  
>> And the question for myself (whether in terms of effective action  
>> or of ethics) is whether an approach (such as cybernetics) can  
>> serve to loosen the ties of either paradigmatic of epistemic  
>> dynamics.
>>
>> To be clear about this - it concerns both psychological and psycho- 
>> social dynamics. It concerns what one might call the 'unconscious  
>> of social thinking'. But I don't think this is to do with  
>> psychological dynamics per se (individual), but with social  
>> dynamics (capable of sharing - on in Weberian language, empathy).
>>
>> And I always felt, but floundered, in thinking that cybernetics  
>> talks of this space.
>>
>> On a more down to earth level, the above in effect means that I go  
>> along with your point as to the proven viability of banking systems  
>> that are not based on the western capitalistic model, and the  
>> insanity (social irrationality) of assuming that debt is inevitable,
>>
>> Roger
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 15 Mar 2010, at 20:17, Doug McDavid wrote:
>>
>>> I should probably briefly clarify my original pointer toward  
>>> Islamic banking.  I was partly supporting Trevor in his larger  
>>> point that various cultural groups have a lot to learn from each  
>>> other, and that it is too bad that old habits tend to stand in the  
>>> way of such learnings.  But specifically I wanted to make the  
>>> point that a banking system that is not based on debt can  
>>> flourish, and seems to be providing a healthy antidote to the  
>>> predominantly debt (and risk) based systems that have been  
>>> experiencing such a crisis lately.  Aside from incidental cultural  
>>> factors, it would be no mean feat to marry such diverse currency  
>>> schemes into a common institutional architecture.  It just seems  
>>> to make sense that mechanisms that encourage investment based on  
>>> shared risk and reward are ones that encourage real productivity  
>>> and ameliorate the tendency toward bubble formation.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Wright, Steve <[log in to unmask] 
>>> > wrote:
>>> Clearing usually involves just a few banks so even if a bank has  
>>> an ethical policy when it is involved in international clearing,  
>>> it usually has to go via bigger banking systems. I have spoken  
>>> with the Co-opís ethical policy bod and was advised that they have  
>>> to clear many separate ethical issues in terms of accepting any  
>>> financial commitment or partnership.  I am still ken to find new  
>>> ways East and West could share a common approach to ethical  
>>> banking but that is probably some way off because of what is  
>>> perceived as official homo-phobia. So I guess the issue is not  
>>> just Islamic banking practices which to me seemed well thought  
>>> through but also existing customers perceptions of the tenets of  
>>> Islam and the fear that they would react strongly to what is seen  
>>> as official anti genedder neutral stances adopted by the Co-op. I  
>>> hope I am wrong about this in the longer run since it would be  
>>> marvellous if the cynicism people now have about the morality of  
>>> modern banking practices was translated into a move towards more  
>>> ethical banking but there appears to be a need for much more  
>>> dialogue before that could happen.
>>>
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer [mailto:[log in to unmask] 
>>> ] On Behalf Of Stefan Wasilewski
>>> Sent: 15 March 2010 18:22
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: BBC iPlayer - A Brief History of Double Entry Book- 
>>> keeping Episode 1
>>>
>>>
>>> I would really like to know what those issues were because I've  
>>> never heard of them before but I can think of other reasons why Co- 
>>> op may not was an involvement but just to be sure who are "their"  
>>> in the text below, Co-op or Islamic banks?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> On 15 Mar 2010, at 15:30, "Wright, Steve"  
>>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Doug
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It is a useful point. I interviewed the Chief Director of a major  
>>>> bank in turkey a year ago about this and he said they had zero  
>>>> exposure to the derivatives crisis. However, their links to the  
>>>> wider world of international clearing banks were more challenging
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I was intrigued by the possibility of such banks working with the  
>>>> co-operative bank here in the UK since they are based on ethical  
>>>> policies but hit an immediate glitch. The Co-opís ethical  
>>>> policies potentially clash with those of Islamic banking because  
>>>> of their corporate attitudes to gender which are seen as homo- 
>>>> phobic. Any alignment with an Islamic bank would lose depositors  
>>>> in the UK it was saidÖ.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> One dayÖ.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 15 Mar 2010, at 10:18, Doug McDavid wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On that point, Trevor, and apropos WoW, etc., it is interesting  
>>>> to see
>>>> the results of the following Google search: "financial crisis"
>>>> "islamic banking"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> Doug McDavid
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> 916-549-4600
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>>
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>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Doug McDavid
>> [log in to unmask]
>> 916-549-4600
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