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Absolutely. I worked with the Coop over several years on their arms and torture policies and their stance made not just good ethical sense but good commercial sense in that they attracted growing numbers of customers who wanted to know their money was being used in an ethically responsible way. This approach ahs to be the way forward if investment is to make sense in terms of other human security factors rather than the casino approaches many financial institutions have exhibited in the last couple of years. A starting point is transparency and accountability. Almost everything we want to change has a financial dimension so I very much support your point in looking at the promise of this sector because the journey is as important as the returns to investors. Someone more erudite than me should explain how Islamic banking creates money without resort to usery.

 

Steve

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Doug McDavid
Sent: 15 March 2010 20:17
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: BBC iPlayer - A Brief History of Double Entry Book-keeping Episode 1

 

I should probably briefly clarify my original pointer toward Islamic banking.  I was partly supporting Trevor in his larger point that various cultural groups have a lot to learn from each other, and that it is too bad that old habits tend to stand in the way of such learnings.  But specifically I wanted to make the point that a banking system that is not based on debt can flourish, and seems to be providing a healthy antidote to the predominantly debt (and risk) based systems that have been experiencing such a crisis lately.  Aside from incidental cultural factors, it would be no mean feat to marry such diverse currency schemes into a common institutional architecture.  It just seems to make sense that mechanisms that encourage investment based on shared risk and reward are ones that encourage real productivity and ameliorate the tendency toward bubble formation.

On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Wright, Steve <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Clearing usually involves just a few banks so even if a bank has an ethical policy when it is involved in international clearing, it usually has to go via bigger banking systems. I have spoken with the Co-op’s ethical policy bod and was advised that they have to clear many separate ethical issues in terms of accepting any financial commitment or partnership.  I am still ken to find new ways East and West could share a common approach to ethical banking but that is probably some way off because of what is perceived as official homo-phobia. So I guess the issue is not just Islamic banking practices which to me seemed well thought through but also existing customers perceptions of the tenets of Islam and the fear that they would react strongly to what is seen as official anti genedder neutral stances adopted by the Co-op. I hope I am wrong about this in the longer run since it would be marvellous if the cynicism people now have about the morality of modern banking practices was translated into a move towards more ethical banking but there appears to be a need for much more dialogue before that could happen.

 

Steve  

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stefan Wasilewski
Sent: 15 March 2010 18:22
To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: BBC iPlayer - A Brief History of Double Entry Book-keeping Episode 1

 

I would really like to know what those issues were because I've never heard of them before but I can think of other reasons why Co-op may not was an involvement but just to be sure who are "their" in the text below, Co-op or Islamic banks? 

Sent from my iPhone


On 15 Mar 2010, at 15:30, "Wright, Steve" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Dear Doug

 

It is a useful point. I interviewed the Chief Director of a major bank in turkey a year ago about this and he said they had zero exposure to the derivatives crisis. However, their links to the wider world of international clearing banks were more challenging

 

I was intrigued by the possibility of such banks working with the co-operative bank here in the UK since they are based on ethical policies but hit an immediate glitch. The Co-op’s ethical policies potentially clash with those of Islamic banking because of their corporate attitudes to gender which are seen as homo-phobic. Any alignment with an Islamic bank would lose depositors in the UK it was said….

 

One day….


Steve

 

On 15 Mar 2010, at 10:18, Doug McDavid wrote:

 

On that point, Trevor, and apropos WoW, etc., it is interesting to see
the results of the following Google search: "financial crisis"
"islamic banking"

 

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--

Doug McDavid
[log in to unmask]
916-549-4600
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