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Absolutely. I worked with the Coop over several years on their arms and
torture policies and their stance made not just good ethical sense but
good commercial sense in that they attracted growing numbers of
customers who wanted to know their money was being used in an ethically
responsible way. This approach ahs to be the way forward if investment
is to make sense in terms of other human security factors rather than
the casino approaches many financial institutions have exhibited in the
last couple of years. A starting point is transparency and
accountability. Almost everything we want to change has a financial
dimension so I very much support your point in looking at the promise of
this sector because the journey is as important as the returns to
investors. Someone more erudite than me should explain how Islamic
banking creates money without resort to usery.

 

Steve

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Doug McDavid
Sent: 15 March 2010 20:17
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: BBC iPlayer - A Brief History of Double Entry Book-keeping
Episode 1

 

I should probably briefly clarify my original pointer toward Islamic
banking.  I was partly supporting Trevor in his larger point that
various cultural groups have a lot to learn from each other, and that it
is too bad that old habits tend to stand in the way of such learnings.
But specifically I wanted to make the point that a banking system that
is not based on debt can flourish, and seems to be providing a healthy
antidote to the predominantly debt (and risk) based systems that have
been experiencing such a crisis lately.  Aside from incidental cultural
factors, it would be no mean feat to marry such diverse currency schemes
into a common institutional architecture.  It just seems to make sense
that mechanisms that encourage investment based on shared risk and
reward are ones that encourage real productivity and ameliorate the
tendency toward bubble formation.

On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Wright, Steve
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Clearing usually involves just a few banks so even if a bank has an
ethical policy when it is involved in international clearing, it usually
has to go via bigger banking systems. I have spoken with the Co-op's
ethical policy bod and was advised that they have to clear many separate
ethical issues in terms of accepting any financial commitment or
partnership.  I am still ken to find new ways East and West could share
a common approach to ethical banking but that is probably some way off
because of what is perceived as official homo-phobia. So I guess the
issue is not just Islamic banking practices which to me seemed well
thought through but also existing customers perceptions of the tenets of
Islam and the fear that they would react strongly to what is seen as
official anti genedder neutral stances adopted by the Co-op. I hope I am
wrong about this in the longer run since it would be marvellous if the
cynicism people now have about the morality of modern banking practices
was translated into a move towards more ethical banking but there
appears to be a need for much more dialogue before that could happen.

 

Steve  

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stefan
Wasilewski
Sent: 15 March 2010 18:22
To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: BBC iPlayer - A Brief History of Double Entry Book-keeping
Episode 1

 

I would really like to know what those issues were because I've never
heard of them before but I can think of other reasons why Co-op may not
was an involvement but just to be sure who are "their" in the text
below, Co-op or Islamic banks? 

Sent from my iPhone


On 15 Mar 2010, at 15:30, "Wright, Steve" <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

		Dear Doug

		 

		It is a useful point. I interviewed the Chief Director
of a major bank in turkey a year ago about this and he said they had
zero exposure to the derivatives crisis. However, their links to the
wider world of international clearing banks were more challenging

		 

		I was intrigued by the possibility of such banks working
with the co-operative bank here in the UK since they are based on
ethical policies but hit an immediate glitch. The Co-op's ethical
policies potentially clash with those of Islamic banking because of
their corporate attitudes to gender which are seen as homo-phobic. Any
alignment with an Islamic bank would lose depositors in the UK it was
said....

		 

		One day....

		
		Steve

		 

		On 15 Mar 2010, at 10:18, Doug McDavid wrote:

		 

		On that point, Trevor, and apropos WoW, etc., it is
interesting to see
		the results of the following Google search: "financial
crisis"
		"islamic banking"
		
		 

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-- 

Doug McDavid
[log in to unmask]
916-549-4600
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