Print

Print


Hmm. Well the sun goes on and off.

From: [log in to unmask] href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">Frank Wood
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 4:25 PM
To: [log in to unmask] href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The Next 100 Years (CSIRAC)

Yes, you start at the "source" and work your way back to the result?

For instance if your electric fire suddenly goes out, you go to the source which in this case would be to check if there is any electricity coming into the house. Next step check the circuit breakers. Next, the plug fuse. Only after that do you conclude that the fault is somewhere between the wire and the element for which there are tools to test for.

In electric trains if the fault is electrical most times you check the relays first.

Is there a relay in climate change? I vaguely remember reading of some such theory maybe it was Lovelock.

Frank


On 27 Nov 2009, at 15:39, Nick Green wrote:

Thanks Russell.
 
Re your previous on the $2.50 relay.
 
Both Stafford and Gordon emphasised multiple causes. So why did the relay fail etc.  I have to say I didn't really "get it" at first because like any other operational Joe I would go to stores and replace the relay job done. But Pask and Beer wanted to look at how the relay was designed, managed etc I eventually concluded. One can be very thick sometimes.  Pask preferred "produces" rather than "causes". It's that circular causality problem again, Does the spark cause the explosion or the presence of petrol vapour. We know the product of spark, petrol vapour and oxygen is an explosion but there is no single cause. Connect a bulb to a battery. Go away. Come back, The bulb is out. Why? There's no way of telling until each component is tested in another trusted circular system: the bulb, the 4 connections, the 2 leads, the battery. All this means something for Climate change etc- not sure quite what-yet.
 
 

From: russell_c
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: The Next 100 Years (CSIRAC)

If anyone is interested in this CSIRO 'report card' released today (27th) then see:
http://www.csiro.au/multimedia/Marine-report-card.html and
http://www.oceanclimatechange.org.au/content/index.php/site/welcome/

On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 8:00 PM, russell_c <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Nick

I'm not sure this is on topic, but this CSIRAC story (below) came through today and caused me to reflect on a comment (by Staford I think?) that "they will find the cause" to a major US power outage (a $2.50 relay?).

Why are we blaming climate change causes on CO2 when the energy increases have a lot to do with the complexities related to power station upgrades needed for PC proliferation, building air-conditioning capacity increases, flat plasma screens and additional housing demand due to family break down etc.

In respect to heat and power production -- are there any estimates of the energy generation involved in the growth of ICT and Internet over the 60 years from when this machine came to be? (there is a picture with the story)

Is this technology phenomena equally the cause of climate change and can it be somehow statistically correlated to CO2 increases?

Russell

Australia's first 'iPod' marks 60th birthday

"The CSIRAC - Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research organisation Automatic Computer - is housed in the state's museum and has today been granted heritage listing as part of its birthday celebrations.

It is the first computer ever to be made in Australia; the fourth computer ever to be made in the world; and the only first generation computer that remains intact. . . ."



[snip]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to: www.platformforchange.org METAPHORUM eList Archive available at - https://listserv.heanet.ie/ucd-staffordbeer.html Archive of CYBCOM eList available at - http://hermes.circ.gwu.edu/archives/cybcom.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to: www.platformforchange.org METAPHORUM eList Archive available at - https://listserv.heanet.ie/ucd-staffordbeer.html Archive of CYBCOM eList available at - http://hermes.circ.gwu.edu/archives/cybcom.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to: www.platformforchange.org METAPHORUM eList Archive available at - https://listserv.heanet.ie/ucd-staffordbeer.html Archive of CYBCOM eList available at - http://hermes.circ.gwu.edu/archives/cybcom.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to: www.platformforchange.org METAPHORUM eList Archive available at - https://listserv.heanet.ie/ucd-staffordbeer.html Archive of CYBCOM eList available at - http://hermes.circ.gwu.edu/archives/cybcom.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~