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Barry - I had no intention of making light of the issue.

But it happens that I do have an issue with fast food and the way it impacts on what we have been discussing.

Roger
On 10 Nov 2009, at 16:30, BARRY A CLEMSON wrote:

Roger,

This and similar US "get tough on crime" measures are having two terrible consequences: 1) we have so many people in prisons that we can't afford it and 2) we are disproportionately locking up for very long sentences  the minorities and poor people whose "crimes" are very minor. 

Our USA criminal justice system is absurd, terribly racist, and makes all of us LESS safe.

Barry

On Nov 10, 2009, at 10:35 AM, Roger Harnden wrote:

Allenna, I realise that I might sound too much like Stafford in his latter years (God forbid!), but anyone who steals (or buys) a pizza perhaps deserves their third strike whether or not they have incurred it!!!!



Roger


PS Folks - I do realise there might be exceptions

On 10 Nov 2009, at 15:11, allenna leonard wrote:

Hi All,

The problem with the proposed law is that it lacks requisite variety.  To name just a few potential issues:

. access is from machines, there is no way to prove what individual did the download
. identity theft is a distinct possibility - especially if penalties are severe
. possibilities for competitor sabotage, vindictiveness etc. from hacking seem high
. there is no distinction between the degrees of damage a particular download might do and penalties
. is it always obvious what material can and cannot be downloaded for free? 
. would there be an appeals process? 

Experience in California with the three strikes law is that prisons are full of people who stole a pizza for their 3rd strike.  The intent was to get habitual/serious criminals off the street but lots of the people affected are very small fish. 

A better approach might be do develop a version of congestion charging that would be able to identify and debit downloaders on the front end.

Allenna


From: Nick Green <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 9:39:15 AM
Subject: Re: News item: "Three strikes copyright talks spark fear online"

Hi Russell, yes. Only a small elite make a living out of royalties- self-publishing is obviously the way forward. Who needs to pay for CD's, vans and bricks and mortar shops when we have .pdf's mp3's, avi's etc? Anyway UK is abandoning plans for enforcement until 2011
 

From: [log in to unmask]" ymailto="mailto:[log in to unmask]" target="_blank" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">rc
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: News item: "Three strikes copyright talks spark fear online"

Well perhaps these fans are just too poor to afford the music cost of a CD when all that is needed is a digital sequence on an ipod? Sure, I take your point, but does the marginal difference between selling nothing (pre-Internet days) and Internet access ease to maybe sell some to a mega-market for unknown musical 'talent' justify turning the free Internet world over to big business and State control? We should be realistic ... it's about big business.

Perhaps we should also contemplate what small media moguls like Rupert M. are proposing? e.g "Terror as Murdoch Empire Threatens to Pull News Sites from Internet"
November 9th, 2009 at http://www.dailysquib.co.uk/?c=117&a=2015.

If I thought your friends were not eating tonight because some adolescent downloaded one of their songs I could sympathize -- but we are seeing the co-opting of ISP providers into the State governance machine. China here we come. Why not sue the Telcos who's wires actually carry the stuff? 



On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 7:25 PM, Frank Wood <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
I dabble in the music business and have seen artists almost ruined when their music is ripped off by selfish "fans" who are too mean to pay the small price of a cd. These artists are not big names and most are struggling to put bread on their table so why should they have to put up with these parasites?

It's a great idea and might finally put a stop to this piracy.

Frank

On 10 Nov 2009, at 10:03, rc wrote:

Should this trend be feared? It looks very much like an emerging 'free' world where at the click of a mouse someone can be blocked from all digital services -- ATMs through to Internet access and services -- or am I just getting paranoid?. 

Three strikes copyright talks spark fear online

The Australian Government is sparking fear and loathing online as it negotiates a global treaty on copyright which could see internet users disconnected after three illegal download complaints. 

The 'three strikes and you're offline' policy is part of a proposed international treaty on intellectual property and Australia is part of negotiations.

Depending on what you read about it, the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement (ACTA) is either a campaign against internet users and service providers, or a much-needed response to massive fraud and theft online of copyright material.

. . . .

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/11/10/2738733.htm?section=justin 


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Cybernetica Press Inc
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