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Dear Nick,

The medical ethos is the same as the "would be climate healers".  
Medicine as a science is a misnomer, it is still an art. Art is not  
interested in mastering or controlling "reality", but in interacting  
with it and continuously learning from successes and failures in those  
interactions. The expectation that MD's could be responsible for my  
health, my life is a way in which the patient also colludes with the  
attributed power of the medical profession. Patients also could  
require from their nurses and their doctors that at least they behave  
as human beings relating to human beings and not as mechanics dealing  
with bladders, arteries, etc. But again, shifting responsibility is  
the name of the game. So eg., at once euthanasy becomes a problem for  
the doctors, the lawmakers and the judges.
Remember that our dear friend Arthur is the first one interested in  
flight safety, because he is the pilot. Perhaps patients and their  
family should have a bigger say in hospital safety, because they are  
the pilots in that case. But I am sure that not many of them would  
like to take up that responsibility. Much easier is the blaming game.

Kind regards,

Luc


Op 29-nov-09, om 16:10 heeft Nick Green het volgende geschreven:

> Right yes, Luc, a rather poor joke by me. You can see Latour  
> modernity by-passed in, of all things, medicine.
>
> In UK news today there's a text book example of the irresponsible  
> science- politics nexus from the basically unaccountable National  
> Health Service. Unaccountable because error rates have no formal  
> controls and were barely counted at all until recently. Reporting of  
> errors by anybody is resisted rather than welcomed as vital feedback.
>
> Some years ago Sir Brian Jarman (ex Chairman of British Medical  
> Association- the Doctors trade union) realised that people die in  
> hospital for the wrong reasons. His analysis of patient risk and  
> viability bears some study. He addresses preventable errors (e.g.  
> Poor nursing care, misdiagnosis, filthy wards producing unnecessary  
> deaths) in UK hospitals. Learned references are given at the  
> Imperial College site.
>
> BBC Reports
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/nov/29/nhs-hospitals-safety-report
> Dr Foster website
> http://www.drfosterintelligence.co.uk/
> University base
> http://www1.imperial.ac.uk/medicine/about/divisions/ephpc/pcsm/research/drfosters/
>
> Usual story: ghastly bureaucrats with no incentive for quality doing  
> fuck all or nothing as we say in polite society. Add in the elite:  
> surgeons who by and large won't work at weekends,  on Fridays or  
> Wednesday afternoons.
>
> The name Dr Foster ( a character who avoids unpleasantness) comes  
> from the children's nursery rhyme. As a word "foster" means nurture.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Foster
>
> The NHS is basically a low pay uneducated culture: in hospitals  
> about 75,000 autopoietic and underworked doctors are supported by  
> more than 1 million (mostly low pay) staff serving, at any one time  
> about, 185,000 patients in a bed. That is an extraordinary variety  
> equation. Fewer staff getting in each others way and more hand  
> washing would be the "$2.50 relay" solution here. Far too much  
> statistically naive (false positive rates are largely unknown) time  
> wasting ritual bullshit that only the gullible can believe survives  
> in UK's NHS -and elsewhere I wouldn't doubt.
>
> Best
>
> N.
>
>
> From: Luc Hoebeke
> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 8:23 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: The Next 100 Years ($2.50 causes)
>
>
> Dear Nick,
>
>
> No missing vowel. In Serb and Croat languages this r is pronounced  
> er as in her.
> Having followed this thread, I learn how the old responsibility  
> avoiding mechanism between Pope and Emperor has shifted towards  
> Science and Politics. We never have been modern as Bruno Latour  
> eloquently argues in his book with the same title.
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
> Luc
>
>
>
>
> Op 29-nov-09, om 03:17 heeft Nick Green het volgende geschreven:
>
>
>
> Brklacic an imperfect clone of Stafford? The missing vowel in his  
> name surely proves this. Anyway New Scientist went with this saying  
> this week "Climate researchers have been inundated with what feels  
> like malicious demands for their data" Why aren't the data  
> downloadable and come to that how about a listing of their program -  
> like the Meadows etc did with Limits to Growth.
>
>
> From: russell_c
> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 9:53 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: The Next 100 Years ($2.50 causes)
>
>
> And just when you thought is was safe to believe the simple story:
>
>
> "Hacked climate change email furore" -- Hacked climate change emails  
> - a tempest in a teapot or a real storm? Paul Jay talks to Michael  
> Brklacic, November 28, 2009.
>
> http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=4533
>
>
> Again, at the end, "... don't latch on to one or two pieces of  
> [$2.50] evidence ...", hmmmm?
>
> rc
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Doug McDavid  
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> This thread alone is worth the price of admission!  Great stuff!
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 4:28 AM, Frank Wood <[log in to unmask] 
> > wrote:
>> Ha ha, love the "marginal seat theory!" Where on earth did we get  
>> the idea
>> that we humans are rational beings!
>> Yeh, we're extremely rational in the context of greed and power and  
>> the
>> notion of power extends to the "I'm right and you're wrong"  
>> attitude. That
>> is why your carefully balanced approach is the way to go.
>> Regards
>> Frank
>> On 28 Nov 2009, at 12:12, russell_c wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Frank,
>>
>> ... and yes, there is that zeal is creeping in, and unfortunately,  
>> many
>> opportunists can smell a "win" ... and that will surely attract the  
>> "lovers
>> of winning" ... and so, off we go on another round of tail chasing.  
>> It's not
>> that they are completely wrong, just not completely right, and the
>> simplicity of over self confidence is always a concern. One step  
>> closer to
>> blind fundamentalism?
>>
>> Oh, and thanks for the agricultural angle. Guess what: not only is  
>> Australia
>> not responsible for the coal based greenhouse gasses that China  
>> produces
>> from burning the stuff we export to them; but also the farming  
>> lobby here
>> has successfully managed to get exclusions from the emissions  
>> trading system
>> being proposed! It is called "marginal seat theory" I think! (see:
>> http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/ 
>> 0,23739,26350929-953,00.html )
>>
>> Now we know there are a lot of sheep (and cattle) down here, and  
>> some even
>> have learned to walk on two legs, and vote, but this type of partial
>> partisan response will just distort the whole by over weighting the  
>> load on
>> those other parts that cannot afford the right lobbyists.
>>
>> You have nailed it here imo -- "... develop sustainable societies  
>> that
>> effectively respond". Unfortunately, while economics theory and  
>> praxis
>> cannot operate outside/beyond the "Growth" paradigm, we will just  
>> have to
>> communicate in that weird language that growing small is not  
>> shrinking!
>> Pulling out is not surrendering, stopping is not failing, etc...
>>
>> Mind numbing! So, surely, one of the functions of groups like this is
>> ensuring that we can see more clearly through what is happening and
>> communicate with others as Margaret Mead implied:
>>
>> I specifically want to consider the significance of the set of
>> cross-disciplinary ideas which we first called 'feed-back' and then  
>> called
>> 'teleological mechanisms' and then called 'cybernetics' -- a form of
>> cross-disciplinary thought which made it possible for members of many
>> disciplines to communicate with each other easily in a language  
>> which all
>> could understand. (cited in
>> http://www.stanford.edu/group/SHR/4-2/text/foerster.html )
>>
>> Unfortunately reasonable climate science speculation (e.g. Lovelock  
>> et al)
>> is being used for partisan corporate politics and unsustainable  
>> policy
>> implementation! BAU I'm afraid.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Russell
>>
>> p.s.  Oh, BTW, the other $2.50 cause is the 80% of CO2 human activity
>> systems living on less than $2.50 per day! And as mobile phone  
>> penetration
>> heads into the exponential in developing economies (e.g. see  
>> various World
>> Bank reports) we will see more awareness of the differentials  
>> between rich
>> and poor ... and we may start to hear echos of those famous 17th C  
>> French
>> words "Let them eat cake!".
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 7:19 PM, Frank Wood <[log in to unmask] 
>> >
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Great piece of writing Russell. The biting irony is that it is the
>>> environmentalists that are the reductionists with their $2.50 relay
>>> attitude.
>>> There are so many vested interests on both sides of the debate  
>>> that any
>>> genuine enquiry into what should be done gets lost.
>>> To add to the complexity, I saw part of a TV programme a few days  
>>> ago (it
>>> was to do with Obama's carbon reduction campaign) which said that  
>>> most of
>>> the "greenhouse gas" was caused by food production.
>>> Here is an article that lends support to this assertion.
>>> Rearing cattle produces more greenhouse gases than driving cars,  
>>> UN report
>>> warns
>>> http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=20772&Cr=global&Cr1=warming
>>> and another article on the proposed remedy.
>>> 'Burpless' Grass Cuts Methane Gas From Cattle, May Help Reduce  
>>> Global
>>> Warming
>>> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/05/080506120859.htm
>>> but here again dear old complexity rears its head again. And of  
>>> course
>>> there is the issue of gene modification. Oh dear.
>>> We expect in our campaign to cut down CO2, that third world  
>>> countries to
>>> cut down or cease logging. Of course these countries see through our
>>> hypocrisy. Consider that the UK used to be almost covered in  
>>> forests and
>>> now....
>>> I still think that we must develop sustainable societies that  
>>> effectively
>>> respond to climate change (whether it be warming or cooling) and  
>>> worry less
>>> about Gaia as that old girl is going to do her own sweet thing  
>>> anyway.
>>> Frank
>>>
>>> On 28 Nov 2009, at 00:55, russell_c wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Nick,
>>>
>>> Re: $2.50 causes
>>>
>>> Yes, I still don't know whether I fully 'get it' in respect to this
>>> example either. I came to a similar conclusion as yourself about the
>>> multiple causes -- with one additional aspect: it was also a  
>>> comment about
>>> reductionist ways of thinking in respect to complex problems.
>>>
>>> I think the author was pointing to the phenomena of a whole  
>>> organisational
>>> system straining to get the simple answer as a cause. It (ie those  
>>> in it)
>>> fears the looming circularity of deep systemic investigation.
>>>
>>> The $2.50 climate change cause 'issue' is said to be CO2, or  
>>> 'carbon',
>>> reflecting the escaping output sun rays/energy and thus bouncing  
>>> them back
>>> to earth.
>>>
>>> And of course, as in all these things, the underlying assumptions  
>>> are not
>>> often questioned. We assume that this heating phenomena is not the  
>>> Gaia
>>> system (of which we, by definition, must be a significant thinking  
>>> part)
>>> working in its own time scale to extend our happy modern existence  
>>> between
>>> the next pending 10,000 year interglacial cold cycle.
>>>
>>> One can take that 1974 Time article and replace a few key words  
>>> and we
>>> have the same media-message being run today -- the sky will fall,  
>>> the crops
>>> won't grow, the hens won't lay ... touching almost every deeply  
>>> held often
>>> neurotic fear we have as a society, culture and empire. So how do  
>>> we know
>>> the truth? We cannot, and so acting on the precautionary principle  
>>> is the
>>> best defense. But again, what to do, or not do?
>>>
>>> What I'm really pointing to is the same phenomena that says bin  
>>> Laden
>>> caused the Twin Towers attack and not the red flag of US foreign  
>>> policy etc.
>>> It is the cultural/systemic blindness to the bigger systemic  
>>> picture.(*) I
>>> saw it as a comment on the way 'the system' works -- i.e. who are  
>>> the 'they'
>>> that will find the cause? IMO, they are the believers in their own
>>> confidences -- whatever side they take in a situation of concern.  
>>> As Frank
>>> said: we need more humility by scientists.
>>>
>>> But the rush is on. And so now it is not science and its quest for  
>>> truth
>>> and answers: it is politics and its power games. But what else can  
>>> be done?
>>> Adaptation is the secondary theme in the climate change debate but  
>>> it is not
>>> much focused on by the media. Why? Because it means operating  
>>> system change
>>> (to use the computing analogy), not just program change. And can  
>>> we trust
>>> systems programmers? Who are they working for? I think the elites  
>>> are not
>>> yet certain of where they can stand safely in the wash up, and so  
>>> things are
>>> more complex than they need to be.
>>>
>>> Instead of CO2, why don't we start with population, blame the  
>>> medical
>>> sciences for stopping malaria, polio, plague, etc without also  
>>> implementing
>>> birth control and sustainable socio-economic reform? What about  
>>> the other
>>> 'club of rome' that will not support birth control etc? We will  
>>> willingly
>>> look at plant food (CO2) as the enemy, but not the local doctor  
>>> who is
>>> working beyond his/her wellbeing limits, usually on a healthy  
>>> state subsidy,
>>> to save CO2 producing humans (you & I) who should perhaps cease this
>>> function permanently. Where do we stop? A $2.50 cause is all we  
>>> need to stop
>>> the process of systemic change occurring naturally.
>>>
>>> One opportunity all this offers is a wide window on science studies.
>>>
>>> Russell
>>>
>>> (*) BTW, on my way out the door yesterday (c.o.b. Friday) a young  
>>> lady
>>> came running past straight from a 1-day management guru seminar by  
>>> some
>>> professor x, and showed me a slide that said tomorrows leaders  
>>> will need,
>>> guess what, yes, "systems thinking". Oh, dear, here we go again! I  
>>> responded
>>> that it will drive them mad if they try, and that imo leadership  
>>> is so
>>> 'yesterday', as is management -- and that we are entering a heroic  
>>> stage.
>>> G-d help us!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 11:39 PM, Nick Green <[log in to unmask] 
>>> >
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Russell.
>>>>
>>>> Re your previous on the $2.50 relay.
>>>>
>>>> Both Stafford and Gordon emphasised multiple causes. So why did  
>>>> the relay
>>>> fail etc.  I have to say I didn't really "get it" at first  
>>>> because like any
>>>> other operational Joe I would go to stores and replace the relay  
>>>> job done.
>>>> But Pask and Beer wanted to look at how the relay was designed,  
>>>> managed etc
>>>> I eventually concluded. One can be very thick sometimes.  Pask  
>>>> preferred
>>>> "produces" rather than "causes". It's that circular causality  
>>>> problem again,
>>>> Does the spark cause the explosion or the presence of petrol  
>>>> vapour. We know
>>>> the product of spark, petrol vapour and oxygen is an explosion  
>>>> but there is
>>>> no single cause. Connect a bulb to a battery. Go away. Come back,  
>>>> The bulb
>>>> is out. Why? There's no way of telling until each component is  
>>>> tested in
>>>> another trusted circular system: the bulb, the 4 connections, the  
>>>> 2 leads,
>>>> the battery. All this means something for Climate change etc- not  
>>>> sure quite
>>>> what-yet.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: russell_c
>>>> Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 10:25 AM
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: The Next 100 Years (CSIRAC)
>>>> If anyone is interested in this CSIRO 'report card' released  
>>>> today (27th)
>>>> then see:
>>>> http://www.csiro.au/multimedia/Marine-report-card.html and
>>>> http://www.oceanclimatechange.org.au/content/index.php/site/ 
>>>> welcome/
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 8:00 PM, russell_c <[log in to unmask]>  
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Nick
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure this is on topic, but this CSIRAC story (below) came
>>>>> through today and caused me to reflect on a comment (by Staford  
>>>>> I think?)
>>>>> that "they will find the cause" to a major US power outage (a  
>>>>> $2.50 relay?).
>>>>>
>>>>> Why are we blaming climate change causes on CO2 when the energy
>>>>> increases have a lot to do with the complexities related to  
>>>>> power station
>>>>> upgrades needed for PC proliferation, building air-conditioning  
>>>>> capacity
>>>>> increases, flat plasma screens and additional housing demand due  
>>>>> to family
>>>>> break down etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> In respect to heat and power production -- are there any  
>>>>> estimates of
>>>>> the energy generation involved in the growth of ICT and Internet  
>>>>> over the 60
>>>>> years from when this machine came to be? (there is a picture  
>>>>> with the story)
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this technology phenomena equally the cause of climate change  
>>>>> and can
>>>>> it be somehow statistically correlated to CO2 increases?
>>>>>
>>>>> Russell
>>>>>
>>>>> Australia's first 'iPod' marks 60th birthday
>>>>>
>>>>> "The CSIRAC - Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research
>>>>> organisation Automatic Computer - is housed in the state's  
>>>>> museum and has
>>>>> today been granted heritage listing as part of its birthday  
>>>>> celebrations.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is the first computer ever to be made in Australia; the fourth
>>>>> computer ever to be made in the world; and the only first  
>>>>> generation
>>>>> computer that remains intact. . . ."
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/11/25/2752781.htm
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>>
>>
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>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Doug McDavid
> [log in to unmask]
> 916-549-4600
>
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