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Barry - I had no intention of making light of the issue.

But it happens that I do have an issue with fast food and the way it  
impacts on what we have been discussing.

Roger
On 10 Nov 2009, at 16:30, BARRY A CLEMSON wrote:

> Roger,
>
> This and similar US "get tough on crime" measures are having two  
> terrible consequences: 1) we have so many people in prisons that we  
> can't afford it and 2) we are disproportionately locking up for very  
> long sentences  the minorities and poor people whose "crimes" are  
> very minor.
>
> Our USA criminal justice system is absurd, terribly racist, and  
> makes all of us LESS safe.
>
> Barry
>
> On Nov 10, 2009, at 10:35 AM, Roger Harnden wrote:
>
>> Allenna, I realise that I might sound too much like Stafford in his  
>> latter years (God forbid!), but anyone who steals (or buys) a pizza  
>> perhaps deserves their third strike whether or not they have  
>> incurred it!!!!
>>
>>
>>
>> Roger
>>
>>
>> PS Folks - I do realise there might be exceptions
>>
>> On 10 Nov 2009, at 15:11, allenna leonard wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> The problem with the proposed law is that it lacks requisite  
>>> variety.  To name just a few potential issues:
>>>
>>> . access is from machines, there is no way to prove what  
>>> individual did the download
>>> . identity theft is a distinct possibility - especially if  
>>> penalties are severe
>>> . possibilities for competitor sabotage, vindictiveness etc. from  
>>> hacking seem high
>>> . there is no distinction between the degrees of damage a  
>>> particular download might do and penalties
>>> . is it always obvious what material can and cannot be downloaded  
>>> for free?
>>> . would there be an appeals process?
>>>
>>> Experience in California with the three strikes law is that  
>>> prisons are full of people who stole a pizza for their 3rd  
>>> strike.  The intent was to get habitual/serious criminals off the  
>>> street but lots of the people affected are very small fish.
>>>
>>> A better approach might be do develop a version of congestion  
>>> charging that would be able to identify and debit downloaders on  
>>> the front end.
>>>
>>> Allenna
>>>
>>> From: Nick Green <[log in to unmask]>
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 9:39:15 AM
>>> Subject: Re: News item: "Three strikes copyright talks spark fear  
>>> online"
>>>
>>> Hi Russell, yes. Only a small elite make a living out of  
>>> royalties- self-publishing is obviously the way forward. Who needs  
>>> to pay for CD's, vans and bricks and mortar shops when we  
>>> have .pdf's mp3's, avi's etc? Anyway UK is abandoning plans for  
>>> enforcement until 2011
>>>
>>> http://www.thebookseller.com/news/101369-mandelson-wants-to-curb-piracy-and-update-copyright-law.html
>>>
>>> From: rc
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 10:52 AM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: News item: "Three strikes copyright talks spark fear  
>>> online"
>>>
>>> Well perhaps these fans are just too poor to afford the music cost  
>>> of a CD when all that is needed is a digital sequence on an ipod?  
>>> Sure, I take your point, but does the marginal difference between  
>>> selling nothing (pre-Internet days) and Internet access ease to  
>>> maybe sell some to a mega-market for unknown musical 'talent'  
>>> justify turning the free Internet world over to big business and  
>>> State control? We should be realistic ... it's about big business.
>>>
>>> Perhaps we should also contemplate what small media moguls like  
>>> Rupert M. are proposing? e.g "Terror as Murdoch Empire Threatens  
>>> to Pull News Sites from Internet"
>>> November 9th, 2009 at http://www.dailysquib.co.uk/?c=117&a=2015.
>>>
>>> If I thought your friends were not eating tonight because some  
>>> adolescent downloaded one of their songs I could sympathize -- but  
>>> we are seeing the co-opting of ISP providers into the State  
>>> governance machine. China here we come. Why not sue the Telcos  
>>> who's wires actually carry the stuff?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 7:25 PM, Frank Wood <[log in to unmask] 
>>> > wrote:
>>> I dabble in the music business and have seen artists almost ruined  
>>> when their music is ripped off by selfish "fans" who are too mean  
>>> to pay the small price of a cd. These artists are not big names  
>>> and most are struggling to put bread on their table so why should  
>>> they have to put up with these parasites?
>>>
>>> It's a great idea and might finally put a stop to this piracy.
>>>
>>> Frank
>>>
>>> On 10 Nov 2009, at 10:03, rc wrote:
>>>
>>>> Should this trend be feared? It looks very much like an emerging  
>>>> 'free' world where at the click of a mouse someone can be blocked  
>>>> from all digital services -- ATMs through to Internet access and  
>>>> services -- or am I just getting paranoid?.
>>>> Three strikes copyright talks spark fear online
>>>>
>>>> The Australian Government is sparking fear and loathing online as  
>>>> it negotiates a global treaty on copyright which could see  
>>>> internet users disconnected after three illegal download  
>>>> complaints.
>>>> The 'three strikes and you're offline' policy is part of a  
>>>> proposed international treaty on intellectual property and  
>>>> Australia is part of negotiations.
>>>>
>>>> Depending on what you read about it, the Anti-Counterfeiting  
>>>> Trade Agreement (ACTA) is either a campaign against internet  
>>>> users and service providers, or a much-needed response to massive  
>>>> fraud and theft online of copyright material.
>>>>
>>>> . . . .
>>>>
>>>> http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/11/10/2738733.htm?section=justin
>>>>
>>>
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>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ For  
>> more information go to: www.metaphorum.org For the Metaphorum  
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>
> BARRY  CLEMSON
> www.barryclemson.net
> 757-622-6673
> Cybernetica Press Inc
> Denmark Rising is now available at my web site
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ For  
> more information go to: www.metaphorum.org For the Metaphorum  
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