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I know Arthur.

I've got 3DSMax, Vue, Lightwave and more, had Blender but XSI7.0 has a Node based programming language that allows you to create virtually anything including recursive structures and it uses 4-D where you can establish boundaries both in 3D and 4D.

The node are mathematical, can create virtually anything and all you need is a map!

Can you see what I'd like to develop?

Stefan


On 7 Dec 2008, at 21:11, Arthur Dijkstra wrote:

Stefan,
What would you like to develop ?
If you want to develop a 3D environment you can also consider http://www.blender.org/ That one is free and multiplatform.
rgds
Arthur
 
Van: Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Namens Stefan Wasilewski
Verzonden: zondag 7 december 2008 21:54
Aan: [log in to unmask]
Onderwerp: Re: Viable Economy #3
 
Download a working version of XSI 7 with ICE technology Joe. It's a Autodesk package now but is billed under its originator's name Softimage (Canadian I think).
 
ICE is a Node based system that allows the construction of so much. Tell me what you think.
 
Stefan
 
On 7 Dec 2008, at 20:44, Joseph Truss wrote:


Dear Barry,
 
I too am up for this.  I am not a technical VSM diagnostician and have never consulted using it although I have pretty good technical knowledge about it (helped along by my model building of it in 3-D using 4 spatial dimensions) and know enough about its applicability to help wherever I can.  I probably know as much as anyone about Team Syntegrity (Stafford's theory) and Syntegration (the protocol) and would be happy to help mount a 3-4 homeostatic syntegration for the system in focus. I have some S3 experience from previous management roles including TSI but it is all small stuff.  My heart is with Roger - although my brain is constantly racing to keep up - and I would be a far more productive and desirable element in S4 (also any opportunity to hang with Roger!)
 
Carpentry as a form of warriorship has a long tradition - does it not?
 
Joseph Truss
Abbey North Drummers / Open Futures / Team Syntegrity AG
 
 

From: Roger Harnden <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Saturday, December 6, 2008 4:42:48 AM
Subject: Re: Viable Economy #3

I am up for this, Barry, but as you have no doubt noted, and Javier stated, my primary value is probably as a subset of S4 (definitely NOT sales or marketing), a sort of internal critic, gadfly, and, perhaps, intellectual authority. But, what you are outlining requires in the first instance the consolidation of a S3/S1 function.

Roger


On 5 Dec 2008, at 15:55, BARRY A CLEMSON wrote:

> This is my third rant about developing a cybernetically sound regulatory system for the global economy. For the sake of brevity, I am going to make some straightforward assertions, without much in the way of qualifying comments. Please consider all of this as tentative and my challenge to you to improve upon it.
> 
> OUR GOALS:
> 1) Every national government in the world should have a "Council of Systemic Advisors", similar to the existing Council of Economic Advisors.
> 
> In the US we also have a Science Advisor to the President, but there is no one charged with explicitly thinking about systemic issues. A Council of Systemic Advisors would, in the long run, have an enormous impact on government policies and on the university and the roles of cybernetics/systems within the university (which in turn would feed back for more impact on government and corporations).
> 
> 2) We need Obama and his team of economic advisors to be aware of and receptive to the cybernetic community's insights re. regulation in complex systems.
> 
> To achieve goal #2, we do not need a fully developed design for regulating the global economy What we need to begin are a few well chosen demonstrations of where cybernetics would dramatically improve on the current economic thinking that led to the current crisis. At the risk of revealing my abysmal ignorance about economics and the stock market, i will suggest that the current system is largely a positive feedback loop with "speculator expectations" as the  key level (to use Forrester's system dynamics language). If this is even close to correct, then the system is GUARANTEED  to engage in wild swings and ultimately collapse. Regardless of the correctness of my example, I think what we need to get our ideas on the table is a few such examples of systemic alternatives to grossly inadequate designs.
> 
> STRATEGY
> 1) We need a group focused on developing the examples of where cybernetic thinking would dramatically improve upon current orthodoxy. Hopefully there are at least a few of our number who understand a little about economics and maybe can do this fairly quickly.
> 
> 2) Obama is certainly the most important player right now, but other nations should not be ignored. And getting to the government of one country might well make it easier to get to the government of other countries. Thus, we should all work on our own national governments (and, where possible, help each other). Thus we need a group focused on how to get the attention of the national decision makers.
> 
> 3) This is much bigger than just management cybernetics. We need to enlist every system thinker in the world. (NOTE: I am now really going to reveal the ignorance resulting from spending most of the last ten years as a carpenter and ignoring the academic world, but perhaps i can still make the point). We need to enlist and ally with groups such as System Dynamics, Society for General System Theory (I know, it transmogrified into a different group but I don't remember the new name), and the organizational learning folks such as Peter Senge who emphasize systems thinking. Undoubtedly there are many others I don't know about.
> 
> NEXT STEPS
> 1) We need to know who is interested and willing to work on this project. Step right up and volunteer. Indicate:
> - your country
> - sketch of your background, what you bring to the table, how you see yourself helping.
> 
> 2) A dedicated forum, listserve or some such. Some of you are much more knowledgeable than I about what we need to support the project.
> 
> 3) Refinement of the goals and strategies. Clearly a serious discussion has to refine these before we can do much else.
> 
> 4) Think carefully about what other system scientists we can drag into this project. Go ahead and recruit those you can. Make lists of those you think might be useful but that you don't have personal connections with.
> 
> A NOTE ON ME
> I spent eight years teaching admin. in colleges of education, then ten years in in  teaching engineering management. I was then forced out of the university for failing at TV teaching. I also had careers in software development (mostly with very large systems) and community development. The last ten years I mostly built additions to homes and recently became a novelist (discovered fiction is a hell of a lot harder than technical writing!). All this is by way of saying that I will have zero credibility with government decision makers and that quite obviously someone else is going to have to be the public face for this project. This might not be an issue, it might well be that the best public face for the project will become obvious as we proceed. On the other hand, I often think of Thomas Jefferson's comment that any politician who wants the job is thereby disqualified because he will then make decisions our of a context of preserving his position instead of a context of the common good. So this is something to keep in the back of your mind as we proceed.
> 
> PARTING SHOT
> This obviously can only be done if a group of us step up to do it. Now is the time! And you are the One! Take one step forward if you are willing to help save the world ....
> 
> Grace and Peace,
> 
> Barry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What i have not yet seen is any large number of people explicitly volunteering to do much about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ===================================================
> 
> BARRY A CLEMSON
> [log in to unmask]
> 
> 757-692-6673
> 
> Cybernetica Press at www.cyberneticapress.com
> 
> 
> 
> "It's not how much you do - it's how much love you put in it.... Do small things with great love."
>            --- Mother Teresa ---
> 
> The true warrior may be killed, but he can not be defeated.
>  --- my paraphrase of Sensei Hamada ---
> 
> And peace rolled down like a mighty river.
>      -- Inspired by the prophet Amos 5:24--
> 
> 
> "An enemy is a person whose story we have not heard."
>          -- Gene Knudsen Hoffman --
> 
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