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Gents,
 
I guess you are discussing different boxes. Suggestion: first talk about
the box itself.
 
For the moment I'm on Stefan's side: the problem is and must be solved
inside the box.
 
That most involved think inside the box is more an indication that they
haven't considered the box well than an excuse to starting thinking
outside it.
 
Harold
 
Now blogging at http://fragmentedliving.blogspot.com/
 


________________________________

	From: Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Boris G
Freesman, Q.C.
	Sent: dinsdag 16 december 2008 16:10
	To: [log in to unmask]
	Subject: Re: Capitalist fools
	
	
	"..issues as stated by the ASC Obama man that fundamental change
must occur within the black box is right.."
	 
	I could not disagree with you more even if I tried!
	 
	The first step is to begin thinking outside the box. There are
no answers within the box, only more of the same mistakes!
	 
	Boris
	 

		----- Original Message ----- 
		From: Stefan Wasilewski <mailto:[log in to unmask]>  
		To: [log in to unmask] 
		Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 2:12 AM
		Subject: Re: Capitalist fools

		No we don't Joe. 

		May of these people are unaware of the similarity of
processes across the insurance and capital markets so have missed
essential pointers in system terms.

		It's not their fault nor our but issues as stated by the
ASC Obama man that fundamental change must occur within the black box is
right, it's just that they don't know the whole system yet.

		Stefan

		On 16 Dec 2008, at 06:38, Joseph Truss wrote:


			
			Hi Barry,
			 
			Thanks for this.  Amazing how the language has
changed from crisis possible to crisis taken for granted and the daily
stumbling from bad to worse.  The worst mistakes have already been made
- we simply wait to face the consequences.
			 
			Joseph Truss
			Abbey North Drummers / Open Futures / Team
Syntegrity AG 


			
________________________________

			From: BARRY A CLEMSON <[log in to unmask]>
			To: [log in to unmask]
			Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 10:52:04 PM
			Subject: Capitalist fools
			
			Nobel Laureate economist discusses the mistakes
that led to our current financial meltdown
			
	
http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/2009/01/stiglitz200901
			
			
			
	
===================================================
			
			BARRY A CLEMSON
			[log in to unmask]
			
			757-692-6673
			
			Cybernetica Press at www.cyberneticapress.com
			
			
			
			"It's not how much you do - it's how much love
you put in it.... Do small things with great love."
			            --- Mother Teresa ---
			
			The true warrior may be killed, but he can not
be defeated.
			  --- my paraphrase of Sensei Hamada ---
			
			And peace rolled down like a mighty river.
			      -- Inspired by the prophet Amos 5:24--
			
			
			"An enemy is a person whose story we have not
heard."
			          -- Gene Knudsen Hoffman --
			
	
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