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I know Arthur.

I've got 3DSMax, Vue, Lightwave and more, had Blender but XSI7.0 has a  
Node based programming language that allows you to create virtually  
anything including recursive structures and it uses 4-D where you can  
establish boundaries both in 3D and 4D.

The node are mathematical, can create virtually anything and all you  
need is a map!

Can you see what I'd like to develop?

Stefan


On 7 Dec 2008, at 21:11, Arthur Dijkstra wrote:

> Stefan,
> What would you like to develop ?
> If you want to develop a 3D environment you can also consider http://www.blender.org/ 
>  That one is free and multiplatform.
> rgds
> Arthur
>
> Van: Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer [mailto:[log in to unmask] 
> ] Namens Stefan Wasilewski
> Verzonden: zondag 7 december 2008 21:54
> Aan: [log in to unmask]
> Onderwerp: Re: Viable Economy #3
>
> Download a working version of XSI 7 with ICE technology Joe. It's a  
> Autodesk package now but is billed under its originator's name  
> Softimage (Canadian I think).
>
> ICE is a Node based system that allows the construction of so much.  
> Tell me what you think.
>
> Stefan
>
> On 7 Dec 2008, at 20:44, Joseph Truss wrote:
>
>
> Dear Barry,
>
> I too am up for this.  I am not a technical VSM diagnostician and  
> have never consulted using it although I have pretty good technical  
> knowledge about it (helped along by my model building of it in 3-D  
> using 4 spatial dimensions) and know enough about its applicability  
> to help wherever I can.  I probably know as much as anyone about  
> Team Syntegrity (Stafford's theory) and Syntegration (the protocol)  
> and would be happy to help mount a 3-4 homeostatic syntegration for  
> the system in focus. I have some S3 experience from previous  
> management roles including TSI but it is all small stuff.  My heart  
> is with Roger - although my brain is constantly racing to keep up -  
> and I would be a far more productive and desirable element in S4  
> (also any opportunity to hang with Roger!)
>
> Carpentry as a form of warriorship has a long tradition - does it not?
>
> Joseph Truss
> Abbey North Drummers / Open Futures / Team Syntegrity AG
>
>
> From: Roger Harnden <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Saturday, December 6, 2008 4:42:48 AM
> Subject: Re: Viable Economy #3
>
> I am up for this, Barry, but as you have no doubt noted, and Javier  
> stated, my primary value is probably as a subset of S4 (definitely  
> NOT sales or marketing), a sort of internal critic, gadfly, and,  
> perhaps, intellectual authority. But, what you are outlining  
> requires in the first instance the consolidation of a S3/S1 function.
>
> Roger
>
>
> On 5 Dec 2008, at 15:55, BARRY A CLEMSON wrote:
>
> > This is my third rant about developing a cybernetically sound  
> regulatory system for the global economy. For the sake of brevity, I  
> am going to make some straightforward assertions, without much in  
> the way of qualifying comments. Please consider all of this as  
> tentative and my challenge to you to improve upon it.
> >
> > OUR GOALS:
> > 1) Every national government in the world should have a "Council  
> of Systemic Advisors", similar to the existing Council of Economic  
> Advisors.
> >
> > In the US we also have a Science Advisor to the President, but  
> there is no one charged with explicitly thinking about systemic  
> issues. A Council of Systemic Advisors would, in the long run, have  
> an enormous impact on government policies and on the university and  
> the roles of cybernetics/systems within the university (which in  
> turn would feed back for more impact on government and corporations).
> >
> > 2) We need Obama and his team of economic advisors to be aware of  
> and receptive to the cybernetic community's insights re. regulation  
> in complex systems.
> >
> > To achieve goal #2, we do not need a fully developed design for  
> regulating the global economy What we need to begin are a few well  
> chosen demonstrations of where cybernetics would dramatically  
> improve on the current economic thinking that led to the current  
> crisis. At the risk of revealing my abysmal ignorance about  
> economics and the stock market, i will suggest that the current  
> system is largely a positive feedback loop with "speculator  
> expectations" as the  key level (to use Forrester's system dynamics  
> language). If this is even close to correct, then the system is  
> GUARANTEED  to engage in wild swings and ultimately collapse.  
> Regardless of the correctness of my example, I think what we need to  
> get our ideas on the table is a few such examples of systemic  
> alternatives to grossly inadequate designs.
> >
> > STRATEGY
> > 1) We need a group focused on developing the examples of where  
> cybernetic thinking would dramatically improve upon current  
> orthodoxy. Hopefully there are at least a few of our number who  
> understand a little about economics and maybe can do this fairly  
> quickly.
> >
> > 2) Obama is certainly the most important player right now, but  
> other nations should not be ignored. And getting to the government  
> of one country might well make it easier to get to the government of  
> other countries. Thus, we should all work on our own national  
> governments (and, where possible, help each other). Thus we need a  
> group focused on how to get the attention of the national decision  
> makers.
> >
> > 3) This is much bigger than just management cybernetics. We need  
> to enlist every system thinker in the world. (NOTE: I am now really  
> going to reveal the ignorance resulting from spending most of the  
> last ten years as a carpenter and ignoring the academic world, but  
> perhaps i can still make the point). We need to enlist and ally with  
> groups such as System Dynamics, Society for General System Theory (I  
> know, it transmogrified into a different group but I don't remember  
> the new name), and the organizational learning folks such as Peter  
> Senge who emphasize systems thinking. Undoubtedly there are many  
> others I don't know about.
> >
> > NEXT STEPS
> > 1) We need to know who is interested and willing to work on this  
> project. Step right up and volunteer. Indicate:
> > - your country
> > - sketch of your background, what you bring to the table, how you  
> see yourself helping.
> >
> > 2) A dedicated forum, listserve or some such. Some of you are much  
> more knowledgeable than I about what we need to support the project.
> >
> > 3) Refinement of the goals and strategies. Clearly a serious  
> discussion has to refine these before we can do much else.
> >
> > 4) Think carefully about what other system scientists we can drag  
> into this project. Go ahead and recruit those you can. Make lists of  
> those you think might be useful but that you don't have personal  
> connections with.
> >
> > A NOTE ON ME
> > I spent eight years teaching admin. in colleges of education, then  
> ten years in in  teaching engineering management. I was then forced  
> out of the university for failing at TV teaching. I also had careers  
> in software development (mostly with very large systems) and  
> community development. The last ten years I mostly built additions  
> to homes and recently became a novelist (discovered fiction is a  
> hell of a lot harder than technical writing!). All this is by way of  
> saying that I will have zero credibility with government decision  
> makers and that quite obviously someone else is going to have to be  
> the public face for this project. This might not be an issue, it  
> might well be that the best public face for the project will become  
> obvious as we proceed. On the other hand, I often think of Thomas  
> Jefferson's comment that any politician who wants the job is thereby  
> disqualified because he will then make decisions our of a context of  
> preserving his position instead of a context of the common good. So  
> this is something to keep in the back of your mind as we proceed.
> >
> > PARTING SHOT
> > This obviously can only be done if a group of us step up to do it.  
> Now is the time! And you are the One! Take one step forward if you  
> are willing to help save the world ....
> >
> > Grace and Peace,
> >
> > Barry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > What i have not yet seen is any large number of people explicitly  
> volunteering to do much about it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ===================================================
> >
> > BARRY A CLEMSON
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> > 757-692-6673
> >
> > Cybernetica Press at www.cyberneticapress.com
> >
> >
> >
> > "It's not how much you do - it's how much love you put in it....  
> Do small things with great love."
> >            --- Mother Teresa ---
> >
> > The true warrior may be killed, but he can not be defeated.
> >  --- my paraphrase of Sensei Hamada ---
> >
> > And peace rolled down like a mighty river.
> >      -- Inspired by the prophet Amos 5:24--
> >
> >
> > "An enemy is a person whose story we have not heard."
> >          -- Gene Knudsen Hoffman --
> >
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