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Re: David Bloor

The problem I have with these absolutist statements "... there is no such thing as absolute truth .. " is they are self contradictory.

I once sat through 20 minutes of indoctrination (1:1) by a supposed policy expert who's thesis was "there are no facts" -- when she'd finished I simple asked the obvious question -- "Is that a fact?" Session ended rather soon afterwards.

 

--- On Fri, 24/10/08, Frank <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From: Frank <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Wikipedia and the Meaning of Truth
To: [log in to unmask]
Received: Friday, 24 October, 2008, 8:58 PM

Just seen the error that Barry made so don't have to make the correction now :-)
 
Kenneth Patchen said in his novel The Journal of Albion Moonlight "I do not choose my truths." I disagree. I think we choose our truths in the light of our culture and the paradigm of our times.
 
This is the point David Bloor made in his book "Knowledge and Social Imagery". My interpretation of what he said is that there is no such thing as absolute truth and that truth is dependent on the ongoing paradigm and nothing changes until the paradigm is broken and then the paradigm breakers set up the new paradigm.
 
His section The Popper-Kuhn Debate  is an interesting discussion on truth and the nature of facts.
 
This is a good overview of Bloor's stance.
 
 
Regards
 
Frank Wood
----- Original Message -----
From: [log in to unmask]" target="_blank" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">BARRY A CLEMSON
To: [log in to unmask]" target="_blank" href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: Wikipedia and the Meaning of Truth

Stefan,

Thank  you. It is no wonder I was confused, I didn't see the article by Simson L Garfinkel and I thought you were talking about Frank.

Barry
On Oct 23, 2008, at 1:01 PM, Stefan Wasilewski wrote:

Barry (and Frank)

I was addressing the article of Simson L. Garfinkel itself and not Frank at all, having read the whole thing and the result was my thoughts as below.

I believe Roger replied and I agree with him (and Frank) but to reply to your thought, we should always go into something with the idea of verifying what we read.

Garfinkel is Navy and framed by his environment and this was my thrust in your point 3. I'm old enough to remember being behind the 'Wall' for long periods and talking to those of my age that sought 'truth' but who were open enough to question what was said all along the way: This attitude stayed with me.

Of the times I've had discussion with Frank it was always clear, interesting and thought provoking, I seldom now respond to anything other.

Hope this helps

Stefan


On 23 Oct 2008, at 16:46, BARRY A CLEMSON wrote:

Stefan,

I find your comments puzzling and would like clarification. 

1) It seems to me that you are saying that Frank has a grudge -- is this correct? I found his piece to be a thoughtful critique that also was quite supportive of Wikipedia.

2) You say (and I agree) it is up to each of us to verify the facts we seek. What Frank pointed out very nicely is that we might be blindsided by our unexamined assumptions. And if we are not even aware of our assumptions (which is often the case) we are quite thoroughly trapped by them and unable to check our facts.

3) i saw no hint of a suggestion to prefer "the current filtering of information and the writing of history by the winners". Rather I saw support for Wikipedia. Where did this come from?

4) Perhaps I am merely clueless but I don't see how his specific profession provides any clue to his viewpoint.

Please help me out here.

Barry


On Oct 23, 2008, at 11:01 AM, Stefan Wasilewski wrote:

I generally find that people who criticise but don't offer an alternative have a grudge and therefore to be put in one box to be balanced as others are likewise accessed.

Surely it's up to each and every one of us to verify the facts we seek and in doing so learn accordingly: Nothing should be taken on face value.

Would he prefer the current filtering of information and the writing of history by the winners to remain as our only sources?

His profession should give a clue to viewpoint.

Stefan
  
On 23 Oct 2008, at 13:24, Frank wrote:

Dear Listm
 
Any comments?
 
Regards
 
Frank Wood
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to: www.platformforchange.org METAPHORUM eList Archive available at - https://listserv.heanet.ie/ucd-staffordbeer.html Archive of CYBCOM eList available at - http://hermes.circ.gwu.edu/archives/cybcom.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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===================================================

BARRY A CLEMSON

757-692-6673

Cybernetica Press at www.cyberneticapress.com



"It's not how much you do - it's how much love you put in it.... Do small things with great love."
            --- Mother Teresa ---

The true warrior may be killed, but he can not be defeated. 
   --- my paraphrase of Sensei Hamada ---

And peace rolled down like a mighty river.
       -- Inspired by the prophet Amos 5:24--







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