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Re: David Bloor 

The problem I have with these absolutist statements "... there 
is no such thing as absolute truth .. " is they are self contradictory.

I once sat through 20 minutes of indoctrination (1:1) by a supposed policy expert who's thesis was "there are no facts" -- when she'd finished I simple asked the obvious question -- "Is that a fact?" Session ended rather soon afterwards.

 

--- On Fri, 24/10/08, Frank <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From: Frank <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Wikipedia and the Meaning of Truth
To: [log in to unmask]
Received: Friday, 24 October, 2008, 8:58 PM



 
 

Just seen the error that Barry made so don't have 
to make the correction now :-)
 
Kenneth Patchen said in his novel The Journal 
of Albion Moonlight "I do not choose my truths." I disagree. I think we 
choose our truths in the light of our culture and the paradigm of our 
times.
 
This is the point David Bloor made in his book 
"Knowledge and Social Imagery". My interpretation of what he said is that there 
is no such thing as absolute truth and that truth is dependent on the ongoing 
paradigm and nothing changes until the paradigm is broken and then the paradigm 
breakers set up the new paradigm.
 
His section The Popper-Kuhn Debate  
is an interesting discussion on truth and the nature of facts. 
 
This is a good overview of Bloor's 
stance.
 
http://www.iit.edu/~schmaus/Science_and_Values/notes/sociologists/social.pdf
 
Regards
 
Frank Wood

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: 
  BARRY 
  A CLEMSON 
  To: [log in to unmask] 
  
  Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 6:27 
  PM
  Subject: Re: Wikipedia and the Meaning of 
  Truth
  
Stefan,
  

  Thank  you. It is no wonder I was confused, I didn't see the article 
  by Simson L Garfinkel and I thought you were talking about Frank.
  

  Barry

  
  On Oct 23, 2008, at 1:01 PM, Stefan Wasilewski wrote:

  
    Barry 
    (and Frank)
    

    I was addressing the article of Simson 
    L. Garfinkel itself and 
    not Frank at all, having read the whole thing and the result was my thoughts 
    as below.
    

    I believe Roger replied and I agree with him (and Frank) but to 
    reply to your thought, we should always go into something with the idea of 
    verifying what we read.
    

    Garfinkel is Navy and framed by his environment and this was my thrust 
    in your point 3. I'm old enough to remember being behind the 'Wall' for long 
    periods and talking to those of my age that sought 'truth' but who were open 
    enough to question what was said all along the way: This attitude stayed 
    with me.
    

    Of the times I've had discussion with Frank it was always clear, 
    interesting and thought provoking, I seldom now respond to anything 
    other.
    

    Hope this helps
    

    Stefan
    

    

    
    
    On 23 Oct 2008, at 16:46, BARRY A CLEMSON wrote:

    
      Stefan,
      

      I find your comments puzzling and would like 
      clarification. 
      

      1) It seems to me that you are saying that Frank has a grudge -- is 
      this correct? I found his piece to be a thoughtful critique that also was 
      quite supportive of Wikipedia.
      

      2) You say (and I agree) it is up to each of us to verify the facts 
      we seek. What Frank pointed out very nicely is that we might be blindsided 
      by our unexamined assumptions. And if we are not even aware of our 
      assumptions (which is often the case) we are quite thoroughly trapped by 
      them and unable to check our facts.
      

      3) i saw no hint of a suggestion to prefer "the current filtering of 
      information and the writing of history by the winners". Rather I saw 
      support for Wikipedia. Where did this come from?
      

      4) Perhaps I am merely clueless but I don't see how his specific 
      profession provides any clue to his viewpoint.
      

      Please help me out here.
      

      Barry
      

      

      
      On Oct 23, 2008, at 11:01 AM, Stefan Wasilewski wrote:

      
        I 
        generally find that people who criticise but don't offer an alternative 
        have a grudge and therefore to be put in one box to be balanced as 
        others are likewise accessed.
        

        Surely it's up to each and every one of us to verify the facts we 
        seek and in doing so learn accordingly: Nothing should be taken on face 
        value.
        

        Would he prefer the current filtering of information and the 
        writing of history by the winners to remain as our only sources?
        

        His profession should give a clue to viewpoint.
        

        Stefan
          

        
        On 23 Oct 2008, at 13:24, Frank wrote:

        
          
          Dear Listm
          http://www.technologyreview.com/web/21558/?nlid=1452&a=f
           
          Any comments?
           
          Regards
           
          Frank 
          Wood~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
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      "It's not how much you do - it's how much love you put in it.... Do 
      small things with great love."
                  --- Mother Teresa 
      ---
      

      The true warrior may be killed, but he can not be 
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         --- my paraphrase of Sensei Hamada ---
      

      And peace rolled down like a mighty river.
             -- Inspired by the prophet Amos 
      5:24--
      



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  ===================================================
  

  BARRY A CLEMSON
  [log in to unmask]
  

  757-692-6673
  

  Cybernetica Press at www.cyberneticapress.com
  

  

  

  "It's not how much you do - it's how much love you put in it.... Do small 
  things with great love."
              --- Mother Teresa 
  ---
  

  The true warrior may be killed, but he can not be defeated. 
     --- my paraphrase of Sensei Hamada ---
  

  And peace rolled down like a mighty river.
         -- Inspired by the prophet Amos 
  5:24--
  






  
    

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