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Just please stay away from 'second order capitalism'!

 Joseph Truss
Abbey North Drummers
Open Futures
Team Syntegrity AG



----- Original Message ----
From: Ern Reynolds <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 12:00:21 PM
Subject: Coerced Capitalism


Try "coerced capitalism" as a descriptor.
 
Ern Reynolds
 
On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 13:07:57 +0700 Maurice Yolles <[log in to unmask]> writes:
I am not sure I am happy with the term Authoritarian Capitalism  from an ideological perspective. Perhaps Regulated Capitalism is better, but  then the same problems emerge no matter what it is called, that of  pathological processes. It is of course such pathologies that allowed the  unconstrained excesses of capitalist processes to develop.

So, whatever  model one uses, the problem of the development of pathologies needs to be  addressed.

Maurice


On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 12:18 PM, R Clemens <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

I liked Taeb's views (and I referred to the Black Swan in  Metaphorum 2008 -- in any case, I live in the black swan river colony)  but I did not get the shirt-to-food thing either. 

I see less  need for multiple banks -- short term efficiency (hmmm?) vs longer  term lack of efficacy. I think we can see 'capitalism' and its  associated innovations as a process that has largely run its course --  not an end state in itself. Most governance systems -- from  participative democracy through to banking operations -- can be much  more efficient with modern communications technology. I qualify  capitalism because I agree with the view that we do not have it any  more in any case -- rather we have some hybrid condition. 

Hence, in my opinion, the phrase "21 Century Socialism" used  by Chavez as a fuzzy handle on where he was headed. I am watching him  and Putin and communist China to see what they are going to do with  all the 'rope' they just bought on credit. (ref Marx/Lenin). I see  Russia is now talking with Iceland. A nice straight line on the voyage  down to South America. Another weak signal I'm waiting for (to satisfy  my S4 hypothesis) will be the 'liberation' of the Falkland Islands!  "Authoritarian Capitalism" is another phrase that has been seen  lately.

Al Q: -- I doubt they are doing anything (assuming they  actually exist outside Hollywood studios). No need to. If the 'twin  towers' snake bite of 9/11 (which was a direct symbolic link to  11/Sept'73 in Chile, for those who care to see it) can be interpreted  as having affected the 'Brain of the  Firm' (aka GWB et al) then we can now perhaps see the poison  affecting the 'Heart of the  Enterprise'. Always remembering that time frames at higher  recursion levels might mean that 5-years on our scale is somewhat less  on a higher scale. What next? Anyones guess -- Decision and Control? That is what I  liked about Taleb's audio -- he was focused on the dangers of using  maths etc to obscure the fact that we just don't know some things (and  that truth is useful for responsible governance). 

Question:  How much of this UK money is in Iceland to escape taxation etc? And  how much of it (and other vast imaginary hordes of it) are the actual  proceeds of the criminal sub-prime lending asset inflation bubble? If  these so called savings are actually just the virtual memories and  book entries of transactions within the credit bubble system -- then  why should they be guaranteed? 



--- On Sat,  11/10/08, Nick Green <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

From:  Nick Green <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:  Taleb
To: [log in to unmask]
Received:  Saturday, 11 October, 2008, 3:07 PM 



Taleb has just appeared on BBC2  Newsnight. Some of the points he made are probably right but in  talking about "not being able to learn from the past" he talks about  past crises. Paradox.
 
In our terms a large transient  corresponds to a rare event (John Waters and I were just talking  about infinite impulse response, modelling and estimating  models). VSM is better than Taleb alone would suggest- even though  he is Mr Time Series Analysis in many respects. 
 
"How do you analyse a system?" I once  said to Stafford back in the seventies. "Perturb it" he said. So we  have the transient perturbation, the slope and step response of  management. We would quickly find out something was wrong because we  were measuring it in real time. The current problem seems to stem  from the fact that the exposed risks weren't known (and we're not  talking about rare events here).  Insuring depositors seems to  be the right recovery strategy- as in so many professions removing  perverse incentives seems to be the ultimate cure. That means more  accountability- Taleb's remarks about Medicine (in the mp3) are  particularly poignant there (doctors have few cures but plenty of  remedies that can injure). I must say Taleb's remarks (on  Newsnight) about mounting complexity seemed insufficient and  the idea that buying a shirt (made in China) puts up the price of  protein was obscure to me if not plain wild can anyone explain?  Could
 this be one of Stafford's rubbish correlations? Mind you  all events are at least weakly correlated. 
 
One thing is for sure speculators  agreements to trade exist and can be analysed. Some are sitting,  silently, on piles of cash, some are shaking in their boots  with no cash. Who are they? For all we know Al Qaeda just found a  better way to destroy infidel civilization other than  by bombing. 
 
Too much apocalyptic talk when all we  need to do is firmly reform world Terms of Trade with the  aim of Justice for producers and consumers through greater  accountability: what products actually are, their provenance and,  possibly, end user certificates. Indeed real time reporting on the  web of how producers perform was recommended by  International Auditors two years ago http://cybsoc.org/#realt
 
There was a time when as serfs we had  to go the landlords house to bake bread, use a blacksmith and even  suckle his children. Do we need centralized banks anymore in  real-time webworld? They seem to be standing in the way of Fair  Trade.
 
Best
 
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-- 
Professor Dr. Maurice Yolles
Centre for the Creation  of Coherent Change & Knowledge (C4K)
[log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask]
http://www.ljmu.ac.uk/c4k
International  Journal of Organisational Transformation and Social Change
http://www.intellectbooks.com/
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