On 3/4/05 21:45, "Neil McLeod" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Rob wrote:
>> "Bachuil" is not only the name of the crosier, but also the estate of
> the >Keeper, and the Keeper himself."
> Similarly, the person who carries the formal 'black rod' into our
> parliament is himself addressed as 'Black Rod'.
>> "Arwachyll" is quite obviously "ar" + "bhachaill", which strickly
>> interpreted would mean "battle of bachuil".
> A further comment: as it is a compound noun, and assuming for the sake
> of argument that Bachaill is genitive, it wouldn't mean "battle of
> bachaill" but "of battle-bachall". Which doesn't sound very likely.
> Neil

I'm not sure if that -yll in an Anglicised form need be read as a palatal
ending in the underlying Gaelic.  The last syllable would have been
unstressed in any case and the 'y' could be a "non-committal" (semi-)vowel.

"Árbhachall" would mean "crozier of slaughter" rather than a mere
battle-standard to my thinking.  Perfect material of course in modern comic
books or the early hagiography (anti-druid or at least anti-pagan) but,
unless there is supporting material in the lore of this particular saint or
crozier, I'd at least consider other options.

I don't see "ardbhachall" in DIL but I'm sure I've seen it in texts or
historical sources with the obvious meaning of "better than your everyday
crozier" or if technical, the crozier of an archbishop, and by extension,
symbolically an archbishopric, an archdiocese or the see of an

I think I would see that in the word before I'd see slaughter/ár in it, even
if later use of the crozier itself as a battle-standard had become the