On 10/4/05 23:54, "Neil McLeod" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Dennis wrote:
>> Rocks heated in the open fire were also used to heat bath
>> water. These weren't called "brotha" (pl. of "bruth") however,
>> but rather prosaicly "clocha fothraicthe" (DIL C 248.32-6).
> What a shame! I suppose this still leaves the possibility that 'bruth'
> refers to the state of the contents of the cup - 'a boiling-over thing'.
> Neil
State of the contents, worth another look in my opinion.

Any chance Dennis could post the actual words used for "causing three waves
to spill over the top of it" to compare with 'bruth'?  (The words used for
the serving vessel and the wine vat might also be useful in comparison to

We still use 'bruth' to describe a surge in a body of water - "bruth i
bhfarraige" would be something like a rolling sea, a sea that's getting up
but does not have to refer to (in fact in my experience doesn't refer to)
breaking waves and that type of stormy sea.  (We also say "bruth faoin
bhfarraige" but that doesn't mean underwater.)  'Bruth' is also used to
describe waves rolling into shore, both independently and in stock phrases
such as "bruth faoi thír" (which can now mean drift material carried in by
the 'bruth').    

While the context of bilingual Irish-English dictionaries can cause the
image of water disturbed at its surface - such as the bubbling of water
boiling in a pot - to come to mind when bruth (or indeed beiriú) is
translated, the difference between berbhaid and fichid needs to be taken
into account when interpreting "boiling", even in figurative usage.

Most lexicographers would draw the distinction between 'bruth' happening to
the thing (e.g. potatoe) in the water and 'fiuchadh' to the water itself
but, if including the above meanings, an alternative could be to say 'bruth'
happens in the water rather than to the water.  The movement of the water in
a pot is observable once heat is applied but the question of when 'bruth'
might have been applied to that type of movement is likely a difficult one.

Therefore, although I could quite naturally and easily describe the
disturbance of water in a vessel through dropping an Archimedes into it as
"bruth in árthach" (with a little exaggeration), I do not expect that any of
you will jump out of your baths and...

But dligid contents of the coire another stir in case the bruth might