From: Neil McEwan <[log in to unmask]>
> At 06:39 PM 12/5/99 -0800, bjones wrote:
> [yes it's off-topic, but I couldn't let *this* go by:]
> >Right now, the UK, Canada and Australia all have higher murder and
> >crime rates than the US overall.
> This is plainly untrue. ...
I know *YOU* will understand and excuse my journalistic license for the sake
of brevity. I had merely attempted to make fewer keystrokes by not adding
the proviso that Canada is the exception with lower murder rates, but you
still have higher crime rates in many respects. Rather than cite a US
source, I'll give you a Canadian one; actually two. The Edmonton Journal and
"Statistics Canada" ... This article was sent to me by your own RCMP.
(I have also been a consultant to the RCMP).
----- begin quote --------
Canadians suffer as much crime as Americans
by LORNE GUNTER
Edmonton Journal 31.3.98
Lost last week by Canadian newspapers and networks ... was the release of
The Third International Crime Victimization Survey (ICVS) ...
Canadians have smug attitudes towards the United States on a number of
subjects; health care, welfare and crime among them. While in each case our
smugness is undeserved, it is especially undeserved on crime. Like several
studies before it, the ICVS shows that except for murder, Canadians suffer
as much violent crime as Americans, and more non-violent crime. Our view of
all America as the final shootout from a John Wayne movie and all Canada as
an idyllic scene from Anne of Green Gables is simplistic, arrogant and
wrong; it borders on outright prejudice.
According to the ICVS, which is conducted here by Statistics Canada, 25
percent of Canadians were the victim of a crime in 1996 versus 24 per cent
of Americans. Six per cent of Canucks suffered a violent crime "a robbery,
armed robbery, sexual assault or common assault" versus seven percent of
The highest incidence of violent crime in the industrialized world was in
England and Wales, where eight per cent of residents were victimized in 1996
(and total victimization is 40 per cent higher than in the U.S.) and where
gun laws are even stricter than in Canada.
Household burglaries and car thefts were as high in Canada as in the U.S (in
England and France they were 50 per cent higher than in North America), with
the added proviso that burglaries in Canada are more than four times as
likely to occur when the residents are home as they are in the U.S. Theft of
other personal property was 50 per cent higher north of the 49th parallel,
The vastly higher murder rate in the U.S. is an important difference. But it
certainly does not justify our gun laws, nor discredit theirs.
For more than a century, American murder rates have been three to 10 times
higher than those of other western nations. And the differences in rates
have remained reasonably constant before and after the introduction of
strict gun laws in Canada, Britain, Australia, Japan, New Zealand and
elsewhere. Indeed, the murder rates in other industrialized nations have
inched closer to those in the U.S. despite various attempts to register all
guns or license all gun owners, or even ban guns altogether.
For some reason, Americans see murder as a solution to their problems,
murder with guns, murder with knives, murder with fists, much more often
than do the citizens of other western nations.
The difference lies in their culture, not just their "gun culture". Crimes
of all sorts, including murder, are lowest in those states with the highest
rates of gun ownership. States such as Vermont, New Hampshire, North Dakota
and Montana, where gun ownership is at least twice what it is in Canada,
have murder rates as low as one-half that in the provinces which are their
The ICVS points out what Interpol and others have also pointed out,
Canadians have no reason to be smug about crime, or about gun laws.
----- end quote -----
> ... who take advantage of the liberal gun laws? I don't see why they
> should be considered an exception -- they are Americans, aren't they? ...
Virtually not one single case of these individuals "takes advantage of
liberal gun laws". Almost without exception these people posess their
weapons illegally. Oh, before i forget, there are no liberal gun laws. There
are over 22,000 gun control laws now on the books in the US.
> >You people are the deluded dupes of a control bent socialist elite
> government that cares little
> >for your individual welfare.
> I'll assume that by "you people" you include Canadians, since you
No, I didn't as I wasn't speaking to one. Unless you want to identify with
> mentioned them above,
> so I'd like to point out that you *can* own a gun in Canada, but that our
> lack of a homicidal
> cowboy mentality prevents us from putting holes in our neighbours at quite
> the same rate
> as in the Land of the Free. ...
As pointed out in the Canadian paper quoted above, this is not true.
Canadian Provinces bordering the US have more crime that the US States they
border where guns are owned more easily.
> But of course I'm only saying that because the
> Telescreen is
Big Brother, Big Brother ... from the Canadian sources cited above, it
looks like you people need more guns for protection.
Bruce L. Jones
The Desert Hostage
The Mojave Desert - The Geographic Center of Nowhere