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Subject: Re: Crime Rates [OT]
From: mcraney <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:[log in to unmask]
Date:Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:50:58 -0600
Content-Type:text/plain
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Neil, I believe the point was that the overall crime and violent crime
rates for the U.S. and Canada [excepting the murder-rate issue] are not all that different,
and that murder rates do not appear to be linked to the number of firearms owned by
society at large.

Those points were made successfully, I think.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From:   Neil McEwan [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
Sent:   Monday, December 06, 1999 11:19 PM
To:     [log in to unmask]
Subject:        Crime Rates [OT]

At 07:48 PM 12/6/99 -0800, bjones wrote:

>I know *YOU* will understand and excuse my journalistic license for the sake
>of brevity. I had merely attempted to make fewer keystrokes by not adding
>the proviso that Canada is the exception with lower murder rates, but you
>still have higher crime rates in many respects.


    Unfortunately, the article you quote does not bear you out.  For example:


>"According to the ICVS, which is conducted here by Statistics Canada, 25
>percent of Canadians were the victim of a crime in 1996 versus 24 per cent
>of Americans."


    This does not specify "violent crime", and since you started off by
claiming that Canada
had higher violent crime rates, I'm going to hold you to that statement.


>"Six per cent of Canucks suffered a violent crime "a robbery, armed
robbery, sexual assault
>or common assault" versus seven percent of Americans."


     This is not a "higher crime rate"; at any rate, the number six is less
than the number seven,
is it not?

      I'm not even sure if this article is accurate.  In 1998, there were
295,369 violent crimes
in Canada, but 8,116,000 in the U.S.  The U.S. population is roughly 10
times greater than
that of Canada, but its number of violent crimes is 27 times higher.


>[...]
>"For some reason, Americans see murder as a solution to their problems,
>murder with guns, murder with knives, murder with fists, much more often
>than do the citizens of other western nations."


     That's the "cowboy mentality" for you.


>>     I'll assume that by "you people" you include Canadians, since you
>
>No, I didn't as I wasn't speaking to one. Unless you want to identify with
>that.


     You weren't speaking to "people" at all, but one individual.
Nevertheless you decided
to insult the entire population of the UK, and I had no reason to doubt
that you were also
insulting the populations of the other nations you condemned.


>> mentioned them above, so I'd like to point out that you *can* own a gun
in Canada, but that our
>> lack of a homicidal cowboy mentality prevents us from putting holes in
our neighbours at quite
>> the same rate as in the Land of the Free.  ...

>As pointed out in the Canadian paper quoted above, this is not true.
>Canadian Provinces bordering the US have more crime that the US States they
>border where guns are owned more easily.


    Again, what kind of crime?  And how are local variations supposed to
blind us to the fact that
one is four times as likely to be murdered in the US as in Canada?


>> But of course I'm only saying that because the
>> Telescreen is watching.

>Big Brother, Big Brother ...  from the Canadian sources cited above, it
>looks like you people need more guns for protection.


    Please drop the ugly-American routine.  Your country has enough
assholes as it is.


Neil
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