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Subject: Re: Helve regina
From: Takeshi Hashimoto <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Discussion of Type and Typographic Design <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Sat, 27 Nov 1999 09:05:11 -1100
Content-Type:text/plain
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I admit the distinction between Irish and Ireland was missed by me.

On the other hand, according to the information I have, uncial does date back earlier than than the fourth century. See Degering, "Lettering", pages 25-26 for two examples. See also "Politics and Script" by Stanley Morrison, and Stan Knights book "Historical Scripts".
--

On Sat, 27 Nov 1999 14:49:21   Patrick TJ McPhee wrote:
>Takeshi Hashimoto wrote:
>% Typical mistake, that, to associate Uncial with Irish.  Uncial is an
>% old Roman hand from the 1st century.
>
>Quite so, and well spotted! Of course, if we're going to have stuff stuck
>up our asses to the point that we raise issues like this, we have to be
>very precise and careful about our own mistakes.
>
>For instance, Adrian Neville wrote
>
>% >Looking forward to hhp on Uncial (I'm Irish, and 40 today).
>
>Which of course, doesn't suggest an association of Uncial with Irish,
>but with Ireland, quite a different thing! And of course, still wrong,
>since the hand we associate with Ireland is the half-uncial. You really
>must be more careful, Neville.
>
>Now, Uncial certainly doesn't date back to the 1st century. The earliest
>I've ever heard it placed is the 4th century. That aside, is it a mistake
>to associate something with a place where it didn't originate? Should
>we not associate smelly, disgusting cheese with France, simply because
>it was first invented somewhere else? Should we not associate miserable
>cold weather and endless, land-locked monotony with Saskatchewan, simply
>because it was once a warmish swampy area?
>
>In this case, one might argue that, given that the greatest Irish
>works of art are the 9th-century half-uncial manuscripts, it's only
>fitting that their characteristic script be associated with the place as
>a whole.
>
>My current score is
> Neville: one `typical' error of omission
> Hashimoto: one error of fact, one error of logic, one misinterpretation
>
>Neville should be more careful not to inflame us with such carelessness
>as writing uncial when he means half-uncial.
>
>Hashimoto should read more carefully, check his facts, and think a little
>before jumping on people.
>
>Ob. typography: has anybody noticed a trend towards setting advertising
>copy with different-sized letters in different words on the same line? I
>guess that's not exactly something new, but it seems like it's happening a
>lot lately. And a lot of the time, the vertical alignment is odd. For
>instance, I saw a movie ad a while ago which had some key words set maybe
>20% larger than the rest of the text, and they sat well below the baseline.
>The smaller text was higher in comparison to the larger than it would be
>if the goal was to vertically centre them, but lower than if the goal was
>to align at the tops of the ascenders. Anyway, I don't get it.
>
>
>--
>
>Patrick TJ McPhee
>East York  Canada
>[log in to unmask]
>


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