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CELTIC-L  December 1998

CELTIC-L December 1998

Subject:

Strong Work Ethic

From:

"Bruce L. Jones" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Sat, 12 Dec 1998 11:27:02 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (130 lines)

<snips>
On Wed, 9 Dec 1998 22:10:51 -0600 Rob Buth Chanai <[log in to unmask]>
writes:
>Comments in line.
>
>> >
>> > John P. Mullen wrote:
>> > >
>> > > And there are even other questions, such as:
>> > >
>> > > 1.  What fraction of minorities are forced into low-paying jobs to
keep living
>> > > expenses low for whites?

No one forces anyone. Most are short term immigrants on a visa who follow
the growing seasons from place to place, earning many times more than
they did in the countries they came from.

>> The best-know case is the itinerant farm workers, who do back-breaking
labor
>> for low wages and no benefits so that suburban families can get
lettuce and
>> grapes for low prices.

Wrong. Suburbanites don't benefit. Most of these workers are employed by
large farms and conglomerates so they can keep their costs low,
increasing profits. By the time the product hits the supermarket, the
cost is usually the same. My family is still in the business so I know
just how it works, for the most part.

>But where do these people come from?  Are they immigrants?  Illegal
>aliens that gladly take what unskilled work is available rather than go
back home?  Do they >have the skills to do other types of work?  How are
they 'forced'?
>Are there guns at their back?

As above, no one is forced. Many, in fact, clamor for this work.
Reputable growers try to avoid illegals but with forgery at the fine
state of art that it is, many are not sure.

>> In some areas there are blueshirts and whiteshirts.  People of color
are
>> typically hired for the blueshirt jobs which are low wage jobs and
whites the
>> office (whiteshirt) jobs which pay much better.

Suurreee ... this is why we have German, Swiss, French, Russian, Chinese,
Vietnamese, Japanese, Indian and Pakistani doctors, pharmacists, dentists
and lawyers, etc.  Last time I looked these were all "white collar".
Hell, I'm having to learn some basic Cantonese to better communicate with
some of them. These folks are usually all legal immigrants who had a hard
time getting here.

>And this has nothing to do with the skill level of the applicants?  I
just do not believe that >this is the norm by any means.  ...

It isn't, but it sure makes a nice myth.

>>  The highest concentration of LD people is in the prisons.  ...

There are many good manufacturing jobs in prisons and it is relatively
easy to get one. Of course the pay has a lot to be desired and then
there's the pesky problem of the living conditions ...

>> > > 3.  Why are basic living expenses (housing, food, medical care) in
the US the
>> > > highest for those who are least able to pay?

Gee, I had to look at my last mortgage payment again. Not to mention the
medical premiums I pay.  I am far from wealthy, but I am certainly "able"
to pay for what I get and I pay a lot more than the typical poor family.
I spend so much on "extras" at the grocers they gave me three free
turkeys this year (just last night).

>> . . .  However, as doctors get more and
>> more HMO patients, they find they can no longer cover expenses.  To
>>make that  up, they raise their schedule fees.  The only ones who pay
these
>>fees are  those without health plans: the working poor.  Their medical
costs
>>have nearly doubled over the last three years and many can no longer
afford
>>routine medical attention.

HMO's are not benevolent medical services, they are businesses. They
charge what the market will bear, and the market will bear a lot. They
raise prices for the same reasons any business does. They don't care
about you. They just want your money.

As for the "working poor", most of them don't have any "benefit" so they
depend on charity at places like county hospitals and many just skip out
on the bills.

>ummm..I work for a very large company, I have a health plan..so-called.
>And my out of pocket expenses have doubled in the last three years.

Most of these raises in recent years are from two sources; the HMO profit
taking described above, and corporations improving their profit picture
by lowering expenses (by paying less of your premium). In the days when
there were strong unions, this didn't happen.

>> In my own experience in urban areas, the rents, prices, etc. are
significantly
>> higher in poor neighborhoods than in wealthier neighborhoods.  . . .

I can't remember seeing any "poor" people living in town houses,
condominiums, row houses or mansions. I think you're wrong.

> . . .  For example,
>> when I went to college I was surprised to find that a quart of milk in
the
>> poorer neighborhood I lived in cost nearly twice as much as it did in
the
>> suburbs.

The store owner knows people can't afford to travel to a cheaper price,
the people out in the 'burbs can. It's the American Way ...

>Well, I cannot comment on that, my grandparents live in the poorest
>section of town and pay less than I do in the burbs for a loaf of
>bread, gallon of milk....even petrol.  In fact the cost of living in my
>community is higher all the way around, even property taxes are almost
>30% higher.

In mine too. I stop for gas when I go into the city because it is *WAY*
cheaper.

Bruce L. Jones
The Mojave Desert - The Geographic Center of Nowhere

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