Christian Chiarcos wrote:
> in the archives of February I have found a message from you about Gwydion. I'm not sure about the Mid.W. standard spelling of the name, but might Gwydion represent /gwyddion/ ? (There are some examples for the use of -d- instead of Mod. -dd-, cf. Mid.W. rut (mit "Auslautverhärtung" instead of *rud) = rhudd)
Well, if the /d/ in Gwydion actually represents /dd/ then yes. The
problem is that /d/ is used to denote both of these sounds. And
although some manuscripts are consistant in their use, and older
manuscripts tend to use /d/ as /d/, e.g. Manawydan should not be
*Manawyddan, there is still some ambiguity.
To further complicate problems, /d/ can also be a variant of /th/ in
So, Gwydion, which is the modern spelling, could mean: 'knowledges',
'divine knowledge' (from Gwydd + -on, and epenthetic /i/), 'divine
tree,' or even 'anger, fury, wild.'
It's from this last (from Mod. Welsh gw+yth 'wild, anger, fury,) that
Gwydion is often associated with Wodan, Odin.
Cornish versions of this name are spelled with /th/, but I believe this
is pronounced like Mod. Welsh /dd/.
> It seems similar to Gwion, a "prae-birth" name of Taliesin, often >compared with Gwyn, one name of the God of Annwn.
I have seen Gwion interpreted as 'little knowledge.'
> If both names belong together, there have been a Brit. *vijon- < >*vion- (cf. dydd < *dijo- < *dio- < *divo- ~ Duw), but I don't know >about the existence of such a root. However *vion- would look quite >strange strange beside *vindo- "white" !
I don't think Gwion and Gwynn go together.
> What is the origin of the Gael. fionn beside of older finn/find ?
> Might the -io- of Gwion be a late Welsh developement of -i- ?
> Any idea ?
Well, I'm no Gaelic expert but the development of gwyn from Celtic vind
is regular: /v/ becomes /gw/, and the consonant cluster /nd/ fall
together (both being aveolar stops Cf. Rhiannon from Rigantona).
I would guess that Old Irish find develops regularly too. In OIr
orthography the slender vowels (i,e) cause the preceding consonant to
palatize. I believe in Middle and Modern Irish that to show that the
following consonant is not "slenderized" that a non-slender vowel is
inserted between the slender vowel and the non-palatized consonant.
So, fiond would show orthographically that the /n/ is not palatized.
The /nd/ to /n(n)/ is the same falling together of alveolar stops as
found in Welsh.
Dennis, is do I have it right?
Candon Clannach, [log in to unmask]
Bum corwc ymyr.
-Taliesin "Kat Godeu"
And my favorite:
Bum davwed yn llat (I have been a bubble in beer) ;-)