Don't mean to be a bother to Dr. Malcor, but there are some issues here:
>>I'd have to check the visual record to be sure (and, unfortunately,
>>at UCLA, which I can't get to easily <g>). I suspect that the
>>groups were there, but I don't recall images of them carrying the
>>banner. The Germanic tribes had had contact with the steppe cultures
>>the Volga long before that, however. And the medieval illuminations
>>dragon banner match to Sarmatian-style tamgas and armor, not to the
Now, here's the question--at what time did the Germanic peoples pick up
the motif? If they had it all along, then we may be dealing with two
separate infusions of the motif--and transmission did not necessarily
need the dragon banner of the Sarmatians. I'd be interested to know
whether the images from Hadrains Wall associated with the Sarmatians are
similar to those which we find in A-S imagery and in the later Welsh
>>Prior to the introduction of the Sarmatians into Britain, I don't
>>any Roman troop movements that would have pitted tribes from the
>>Isles against the steppe nomads.
Right, but would we need interaction with the steppes at this point? By
the 1st C AD, we're probably looking at several draconic traditions
existing within the Empire (to include the Leviathan of the Old
Testament, which we discussed earlier here). If we have Britons
interacting with other peoples in other cohorts and other natives in the
Empire, there's no telling what they may have brought home.
>>War, and I don't think the iconography from Hadrian's Wall and points
>>bears that out.
So what we're dealing with is iconography on Hadrian's Wall, and whether
or not that iconography was transferred to the native peoples, and added
to their "motif menu" if you will.
Check the saints' lives out of Northumbria.
I will! Looks like a good lead.
The next place to look is not Wales but in Cornwall. The
>>trade/intermarriage between Cornwall and Armorica/Brittany reinforces
>>imagery post-407 or so
But do we have good sources for these region during this period? I
wasn't aware of any MS evidence for Cornish until much later, though I'm
not up on the inscriptions--if there is MS evidence, I'd be very
interested in it.
>>Your best bet is inter-library loan, although Garland is in the
>>doing yet another run.
I'll see if Catholic U has it. If not, I should be able to find it
somewhere in the consortium in DC.
Once again, many thanks for answering some questions.
Department of History
Catholic University of America
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