> Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 15:56:02 PST
> From: James J Cain <[log in to unmask]>
> On Sun, 8 Jun 1997 06:24:23 -0400 Susan Harris <[log in to unmask]>
> >I think the legend of Madoc is credible, or at least not incredible.
> >The group might not have remained intact and distinct, but may well have
> >assimilated into a native american tribe. That would easily account
> >for occasional language and cultural similarites between Welsh and Mandan.
> >Don't you think?
> >I'm new to this list. Please bear with me :)
> Welcome. As I said to Marc, we NEVER take off anyone's head...yell at
> them, maybe, but...[:>)>
Yes, welcome. And Jim is right, even though another head would make a
nice addition to my collection ... ;-)
<snipped a lot of good examples of language similarities that show
that simple similarities are no proof for connections>
> All of this as a way of saying that absent any other proof, the odd
> similarity in language or custom is just that, a similarity, not a proof
> of outside influence.
> Which doesn't mean that the Mandan aren't an interesting group despite
> probably not being Welsh.
> Now...if all of this leaves you saying "Yeah, but...", then say "Yeah,
> but..." and fill in the blank and fire back...that's how, if knowledge
> is really our goal, we learn things...both of us.
So it is. In the special case (possible Welsh / Mandan connections) I
would especially be interested in hearing any similarities apart from
the alleged language similarities, which are most probably nothing
but such accidental similarities like in the examples provided by
Especially I would be interested in the often mentioned "cultural"
similarities. What cultural similarities are there? Similarities in
material culture? In socio-political organisation? In the legal
system? In the traditional tales? In everyday life? And what are
those similarities in detail, and why are they so specific to be an
argument for a direct connection?
I would like you to forget the alleged language connection for a
while, and to forget the Prince Madog legend for a while. Do you
think that the cultural similarities between the Mandans and the
medieval Welsh are big enough to assume that they had a direct
RAY (Raimund Karl,University of Vienna,Dep.of Prehistory)
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