<snipsandcomment> It will have a Celtic theme, honest ...
On Mon, 16 Jun 1997 15:46:08 +0000 Pat McGarrigle <[log in to unmask]>
>>........................................ As to compare consider the
>> actions of a motorist who while intoxicated gets behind the wheel of
>I didn't really want to get involved in this debate because I'm
>aware of what a sore point it is in the USA but...
It is a sore point. It is also one of the nation's founding principles.
And most of those founders were Celts.
> A car is designed as a mode of transport, handguns are
>designed to kill people - I would have thought that if someone
>manages to kill someone with a handgun, they're using the 'tool'
>competently (sorry i couldn't resist that :-)
Only partly correct. Handguns are also designed for hunting, target
shooting and collecting as artifacts. Here, as long as some law stands,
the "what" is irrelevant. As I said, one of our founding principles was
the guarantee of ownership of firearms of all kinds. Thomas Jefferson,
who drafted the Declaration of Independence from Great Britain said, "No
freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms." He stated elsewhere that
"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert
that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by
themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
Nothing could be plainer.
The first shots fired in our revolution were fired over British attempts
to enact gun control and confiscation on the colonists. The British
showed up at Lexington and Concord to disarm the local militia and arrest
it's leaders, Samuel Adams and John Hancock. They refused disarmament and
the result was the start of the revolution and the famous (at least in
the US) "Shot Hear 'Round the World."
> In Ireland, gun laws are even stricter than they are in Britain.
Yes, and some thugs are quite successful with only strongarm robbery.
>During the early to mid-70s, anyone with a licensed firearm ran
>the risk of their homes being raided by paramilitaries in search
>of weapons for use in NI. Neighbours of ours in Dublin had
>their house wrecked one night for a shotgun.
They owned a shotgun and allowed their home to be "wrecked". I find this
odd. I own a shotgun and my home would never be "wrecked" - because I own
>I think this whole debate shows the cultural gulf between
>the US and Britain/Ireland, on this issue at least .
You are correct, without doubt. I do not expect we shall reach agreement
on the issue. In the US armed Celts started, ran and successfully
completed the revolution. I, an American Celt, have made a standing offer
to repatriate anyone to the UK who truly desires to live in a disarmed
society - disarmed by a government. I only ask that they renounce their
American citizenship and affirm to never set foot on American soil again.
>We're not sheep, it's just a non-issue.
It may not be an issue for you, but by our definition you aren't entirely
free if a government can tell you what you may or may not own.
>Normally, if a criminal wants to obtain a firearm for an armed
>robbery (I'm excluding paramilitaries here, they have their own guns),
>there are suppliers in Dublin who rent out guns by the hour and
>amount of ammunition used.
Rent? Now there's enterprise in action. I think I'll pass it along.
>About 5 uniformed policemen have been killed here in the past 50
But all of the Celts with the will to fight were transported, right? Only
the sheep are left, right? Just kidding ... don't shoot me [: )
>gangland shootings in Dublin and, obviously, the most serious was
>the murder of Veronica Guerin by contract killing last year (as far
>as I know she was offered a special licence and training to carry a
>handgun to protect herself but she refused).
You mean she could have lived, but chose to empower her own murder
instead? This has happened to some women in the US too. The most notable
recent example was Nicole Brown-Simpson. Had she been armed (and she
could have been) she would now be a rich widow instead of dead.
>>I assume that it is in line with this discussion, and to Celts, since
>>they were known as fierce warriors, and rational about the need to be
>>able to protect themselves.
>>You can't conceal carry a shotgun, only a handgun.
You can conceal a shotgun. We have some that are just dandy for this.
Same with machine guns. Of course, one must wear a coat. Not to mention
that both a shotgun and a machinegun are far more deadly than a handgun -
by several orders of magnitude.
>I would have thought that the traditional Celtic method would
>have been hand-to-hand combat (still done in many places
>outside pubs or dancehalls :-).
Traditional Celtic hand-to-hand combat was dueling with swords. Usually
to the untimely demise of one or more of the belligerents involved.
>Anyway, I think we can defend ourselves without concealed handguns.
I'd wager you couldn't defend yourself against me if we were both
unarmed. I'm 6'1" tall and weigh 250 lbs. I can bench press over 400lbs.
I once broke a man's arm in an arm wrestling contest. What would you do
if someone like me took a liking to you on a dark night? These things
never happen in the UK?
>Maybe if I was living in the USA, I might need a gun to defend myself,
but I don't
>need one in Ireland. This isn't the US.
Here a woman armed with a handgun and trained in how to use it is
statistically 3 1/2 times safer than an unarmed woman. No rapes, no
robberies, no assaults. Safety. It's not bad. And if you are never
attacked the pistol is nothing more than a small weight in the bottom of
your purse. A harmless inanimate object.
But, I've said enough. I do not mean to offend, just disagree.
Bruce L. Jones
The Mojave Desert - The Geographic Center of Nowhere