On Wed, 30 Apr 1997 18:13:43 -0400 Eileen Jundzil <[log in to unmask]>
>In a message dated 97-04-28 17:40:15 EDT, you write:
> >> The only thing I'd argue with in your statement is the term
> >> Irish-American. And Irish-American is someone born in Ireland who
> >i seriously wonder if the term is that standardized. since we folks
> >here ...
> I don't think it is standardized at all, let alone an agreed upon
> distinction as to which side of the hyphen which term rest against.
>Mr. Cain, with all due respects.....
>You are free to call yourself whatever you wish. I chose my words
>thoughtfully and deliberately and after having seen Flatley LIVE (not
>poorly made video) in LOTD just three nights ago, let me reiterate:
>I am proud to be an Irish American.
>American Irish, I posit is, in fact, a COLLECTIVE term as in:
>Corn beef and cabbage is largely an ethnic dish attributed to the
>Additionally, I don't recall seeing this confusing term used in
>to Irish-Americans such as Irish America or Hibernia.
>In fact it reminds me of a term I would find in a history book like:
>"The settlement of the American West was one that........"
>Further, I consider it to be awkward and not practicable. One has to
>wary when choosing one's proper adjectives as in "American Irish".
>have I ever heard any of my friends, family or colleagues refer to
>using this awkward phraseology. Neither were we corrected by our profs
>UCG when referring to ourselves as Irish-Americans as I reflect.
>I have read many posts tonight and I forget whether it was you or
>else who cited some book source for this. Let me point out to you
>being Irish-American will not be altered by some PC ethnic
>whose agenda is unknown by me.
>Thank you for your input on this matter but rest assured that this
>teacher intends to keep calling herself an Irish-American as she
>functions daily in a universe peopled by other folks who refer to
>selves as Polish-Americans, Italian-Americans, French-Americans,
>I know full well what country I live in. I suspect the PC police can
>shooting at their targets but they will continue not to make solid
>as long as most of us know what words capture both our hearts and
>as this term does for me!
Boy...I can always tell when someone is giving me hell...I become MR.
CAIN. Sounds like I'm back in school with the goof old Sisters of
Well...Ms. Jundzil...this English major is not a part of the PC police,
does not find the term awkward, finds it more exact and what the bloody
hell is Irish-American but a COLLECTIVE term...as in "The
Irish-Americans hold parades every St. Patrick's Day."
And, for an English teacher, you seem to have difficulty comprehending
what I said. I hope you're not like the English teacher my son Sea/n
had in school who sent home a syllabus that had 8...count 'em...8
grammatical and/or spelling errors IN THE FIRST PARAGRAPH of a three
page document. Had I not cared whether Sea/n passed or failed, I'd've
corrected it and sent it to the Principal.
I didn't say this was the term...I said I felt it should be the term.
And the book I cited...which is a very good book by the way...was
"Beyond the Melting Pot - the Negroes, Puerto Ricans, Jews, Italians and
Irish of New York City" by Nathan Glazer and Daniel Patrick Moynihan
(He's currently a US Senator, but don't hold that against him, he was
once a very good sociologist...and, if the name didn't give him away, American Irish and it's HIS term, not mine.) As this book was published in
1963 and since Political Correctness is an 80's - 90's thing, I'd hardly
call this a PC document.
I suggest you be actually burned before crying "ouch" [Let me point out
to you that my being Irish-American will not be altered by some PC
ethnic semanticians whose agenda is unknown to me.] and that you read
books before airily dismissing them. It's one thing for me or you or
anyone to get on here and spout off when we aren't sure of something...I
hope you don't do this in your classroom.
So...Ms. Jundzil...Mr. Cain will repeat his original statement. It is my
humble opinion that Irish-American is an incorrect term. Let me explain.
Someone born in Ireland is Irish. Someone born in Ireland who moves to
America and becomes a naturalized citizen is an Irish-American (and if
that's you and your family, et al...hey...). Someone born in America is
an American. There are large numbers of people who stop right there and
who think we should stop right there...some are Joe Lunchbox and some
are folks with half the alphabet after their names. I believe it's a
good thing to take it the step farther and say...a person born in
America of Irish descent is American Irish.
We who are born here are not Irish and each generation gets us further
away. We are Americans and as Americans of Irish descent, we are a new
tribe. I'm proud as I can be of my Irish heritage and ancestry, but I
am not Irish, I am American Irish...my greatgrandfather was an
Now...nowhere did Mr. Cain say that this was an accepted term...quite the
And Mr. Cain fails to see what it was he said that was such a threat to
you. I think it's an incorrect term...if the world disagrees...won't be
the first time. I certainly wasn't on the attack.
Oh well...oh, by the way...you were born here, right? Guess what, that makes you a Native American. Native - belonging to by birth or origin. America - the place where YOU were born and originated.
As I said, I've no idea what provoked you to attack...kind of enjoyed
it...let's me let my snide side out to play...but so far this had been a
friendly multi-part discussion with my position generally on the losing
Bi/onn dha/ insint ar sce/al agus dha/ leagan de/ag ar amhra/n.
PS: I'm sorry, but I missed the significance of having seen LOTD, live or
otherwise to the rest of this missive. But, if you were implying that
I've only seen the tape, sorry darlin', I saw it LIVE three weeks ago.