> Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 08:50:03 -0600 (CST)
> From: Atheling Ironsides <[log in to unmask]>
> Ray! Good Lord man! Did someone push your button or what?!?
Sorry for the long rant, but in fact moral zealotry is getting on my
nerves. So yes, in a kind someone did push my button.
> You are clearly at odds with the Catholic Church, and maybe Christianity in
> general. You believe in moral relativism. Again as I have told you before
> you sound like a Marxist. ;>
Yes, I do generally believe in relativism, not only moral. And I am
definitly not a marxist (even though the basic idea behing Marxism
is quite close to the one behind Christianity, and both have been
equally distorted). And in fact, I do like Christianity, maybe
Catholic one not specifically but definitly more than most others.
This is the main reason why I get angry if someone is using it as
an apology to judge others moral. To me, the message of christianity
is "love each other, and enjoy your differences in that love", and
not: who is thinking different than me is morally inferior and I may
look down upon him because of my superior moral.
> Anyway, I disagree with you totally about the issue of religion namely
> Christianity being the cause of so many wars/deaths, etc. NONSENSE!
> Yes of course there were some but if you look real close at most of these
> wars they were for secular reasons.
Hmm, of course most of those wars were also motivated by secular
reasons, some of them only by secular reasons, but more often than
not Christianity not only let itself be used but activly supported
these secular interests and gave its sanctus to it. And it also was
heavily involved in some really bad things without secular reasons
Please note that I do not say that Christianity is bad in itself, on
the contrary, I think it is basically a very good idea. But it has
been used and distorted more often than almost any other religion on
this planet by those who claimed to be its most devote followers. And
if it is by their fruits that you shall know them that really isn't
the best advertisment for Christianity, at least in my humble opinion.
> Yes Democracy did have it's roots in humanism but Christianity had it's
> role too esp. that type of Christianity that came out of the Protestant
> Reformation. I think your ignorance of, or unwillingness to admit. that
> there is a positive role that religion, esp. Christianity has and does play
> in the history of mankind denotes a very emotional and biased point of
> view on your part.
That's not what I said. I agree totally with you that Christianity
has its good sides, a lot of them really, but it has its dark sides
as well. And its hard for me to accept that someone is claiming to
derive a universally correct, superior morality from a system that
has, with exactly the same argument, been used to justify slaughter,
rape, murder and subjugation of millions of people.
I start to think if I hear such claims of superior morale. If you
don't you are welcome to.
> I short, Ray, in my opinion, your rant against Christianity is overly
Well, that's possible.