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Subject: Re: draft-ietf-html-style-00.txt
From: lilley <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:[log in to unmask]
Date:Tue, 12 Dec 95 11:20:43 EST

text/plain (89 lines)

Scott E. Preece said:> 

>    From: lilley <[log in to unmask]>
> |   Perhaps you could provide a real world example of a type of document where 
> |   this use of un-named styles is a major benefit over using class or 
> |   style names. With a clearer idea of the problem, it would be easier to 
> |   see a solution. 

> It's *not* a "major benefit,"  it's an attention-to-detail kind of
> thing.  An authoring language with a STYLE attribute would be a better
> language, to my mind, for authoring in.  Not "a lot better," but better
> in a way that some fraction of users will notice.  I don't claim that
> uniquely styled items occur a lot or that the effort of creating
> pseudo-names for them is a major effort or that the number of bugs
> resulting from the required cruft is significant.

Well, thanks for clearing that up. So there is no burning issue here, it
boils down to saving keystrokes and possibly - for some users - making it 
easier to write individual documents by hand with editors where moving 
around the document is difficult.

> What I do say is that uniquely styled items *do* occur

That has never been in dispute. The grand total cell in a table is 
likely to be uniquely styled. But you can always use ID, or CLASS, to
specify this.

The point waas whether *anonymous* styling occured, and occured enough 
that it should be specially catered for. And when you think about it, 
that really means that a random formating change has been applied for 
no real reason. If there is a reason, you can name it. If you can name 
it, you have a class name.

>  (examples -
> several groups of columns in a table, each highlighted a different
> background color, the colors referred to from the text;

That group of columns are all the same colour because they are related 
in some way and you want to discuss them together in the text.  That 
relationship or grouping is a name.

>  a single cell in
> a table called out by color or size; 

Because it is important in some way. What way? What does it signify? That
is the name.

> a word styled for the literary
> allusiveness of the way it is styled (size or font)).

That seems circular, but OK let's suppose you have a product called 
BANGtinkle and you want BANG in some ultrabold font and tinkle in some 
cursive script font. Class names of logo-bang and logo-tinkle might be 

[ Actually the latter case is where being able to declare your own 
  entities and write &bangtinkle; would be a win. Amanda was writing up 
  something about that, was she not? ]

> Frankly, hearing product planners say "Well, if we don't include this
> feature, we'll force the users to do things the way we think they
> should" does not encourage me to believe their users are going to be
> happy campers...

Not necessarily. Lots of features get put into alpha releases of softare 
and then removed because they turned out to be a bad idea. This makes 
for a better product. A well planned and elegant feature set pleases 
the users more than a rash of bells and whistles crammed onto the 
icon bar.

Chris Lilley, Technical Author and JISC representative to W3C 
|       Manchester and North HPC Training & Education Centre        |
| Computer Graphics Unit,             Email: [log in to unmask] |
| Manchester Computing Centre,        Voice: +44 161 275 6045       |
| Oxford Road, Manchester, UK.          Fax: +44 161 275 6040       |
| M13 9PL                            BioMOO: ChrisL                 |
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