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CSOUND  March 2016

CSOUND March 2016

Subject:

Re: What's a good alternative to moogladder filter?

From:

Peter Burgess <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

A discussion list for users of Csound <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 18 Mar 2016 10:10:37 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (423 lines)

Cheers very much Anton! These are some great comparisons.

I've really enjoyed and got great results from tbvcf, but it is quite
glitchy (only in the way it states in the manual mind), and the
results depend entirely on the sr. What's peoples general opinion on
tbvcf? Is it a lost cause? Should I stop using it? I foolishly thought
one day that I could fix the sr issue, and delved into the code, but
quickly realised I was in way over my head, lol

On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 9:02 AM, Anton Kholomiov
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Another example of using Csound filters. This time in dubstep context and
> with some other filters.
> Includes: moogladder, moogvcf, lpf18, bqrez, lowres, mvclpf1, mvclpf2,
> mvclpf3, clfilt, butterlp, rezzy, svfilter, vlowres, statevar.
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0hamb1811hv1gjk/dub-filters.zip?dl=0
>
> The original example for moogladder was coded by Jacob Joaquin
>
> Anton
>
>
> 2016-03-17 23:39 GMT+03:00 Anton Kholomiov <[log in to unmask]>:
>>
>> Audio examples of using Csound filters to implement a PAD-timbre:
>>
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/mhfpudm46236ozl/csound-filters-pads.zip?dl=0
>>
>> there are dry and processed with reverb audio files.
>> So that you can listen to the difference between various csound filters
>>
>> 2016-03-17 22:41 GMT+03:00 Victor Lazzarini <[log in to unmask]>:
>>>
>>> moogvcf4 segfaults? Please open an issue for us to investigate.
>>>
>>> Victor Lazzarini
>>> Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy
>>> Maynooth University
>>> Ireland
>>>
>>> On 17 Mar 2016, at 19:26, Anton Kholomiov <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> @ Victor
>>>
>>> I've got performance scores for various filters.
>>> I've implemented a pad-instrument with sequence of two filters of the
>>> same type.
>>> The results shows CPU usage in percent for 8 notes chord (it uses 16
>>> instances of the given filter):
>>>
>>> ~~~
>>> moogladder  -- 60 %
>>> lpf18             -- 33
>>> bqrez            -- 27
>>> moogvcf       -- 26
>>> clfilt               -- 19
>>> lowres           -- 17
>>>
>>> ; new mvc filters
>>>
>>> mvclpf1         -- 30
>>> mvclpf2         -- 32
>>> mvclpf3         -- 45
>>> mvclpf4         -- segfaults
>>> ~~~
>>>
>>> Maybe I can open issue for optimization of moogladder. The sound quality
>>> is very good
>>> but if the tanh would be replaced with table Maybe I would post a look up
>>> it can also speed up performance.
>>>
>>> I think I can post a sound examples later.
>>>
>>> To my ears moogladder, moogvcf, mvclpfNs produce soft mellow sounds
>>> clfilt, lowres are more harsh but it reminds me some examples of
>>> oldschool dance timbres
>>> I like lowres a lot it has it's own interesting character.
>>>
>>> Anton
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2016-03-17 15:09 GMT+03:00 Dr. Richard Boulanger
>>> <[log in to unmask]>:
>>>>
>>>> thanks.  yes.  that might be the one.  nice.  but.. not at
>>>> "comprehensive" as filter compare - which is really comprehensive (and will
>>>> need to be expanded now, but awesome.)
>>>>
>>>> I did also like his formant filter explorer instrument too - very
>>>> versatile and impressive.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 1:55 AM, Anton Kholomiov
>>>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> @ Dr B
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe Rory mentions this effect
>>>>> http://iainmccurdy.org/CsoundRealtimeExamples/Cabbage/Effects/MultiReverb.csd
>>>>>
>>>>> 2016-03-17 4:23 GMT+03:00 Dr. Richard Boulanger
>>>>> <[log in to unmask]>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> cant find multiverb
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 8:45 PM, Rory Walsh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> His multi-verb instrument is great too ;)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 17 March 2016 at 00:28, Dr. Richard Boulanger
>>>>>>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Iain's compare filters instrument is awesome.  -dB
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 5:57 PM, Peter Burgess
>>>>>>>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers for the Ian McCurdy link! I'll check that out tomorrow
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 9:52 PM, Victor Lazzarini
>>>>>>>>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> > It is expensive. I suppose we could exchange the calls for table
>>>>>>>>> > lookups.
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > Victor Lazzarini
>>>>>>>>> > Dean of Arts, Celtic Studies, and Philosophy
>>>>>>>>> > Maynooth University
>>>>>>>>> > Ireland
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> >> On 16 Mar 2016, at 19:33, jpff <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >> Just looked at moogladder opcode and it loos expensive -- 8
>>>>>>>>> >> calls the tanh insid the main loop.  Tried alittle unrolling but it made no
>>>>>>>>> >> difference.
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >>> On Wed, 16 Mar 2016, Anton Kholomiov wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>> >>> I've got some problems when I stuck two moogladers in chain
>>>>>>>>> >>> toincrease the
>>>>>>>>> >>> order of the filter and if use several of them for each
>>>>>>>>> >>> voice for the stereo signal and if I have several voices.
>>>>>>>>> >>> Then I can get buffer underruns. But when I switch to bqrez
>>>>>>>>> >>> there are
>>>>>>>>> >>> no problems with performance. The CPU load drops dramatically
>>>>>>>>> >>> and so drops the quality of the sound :)
>>>>>>>>> >>> So I try to investigate.
>>>>>>>>> >>> Also there is good comparison of filters at McCurdy's csound
>>>>>>>>> >>> page:
>>>>>>>>> >>> http://iainmccurdy.org/csound.html
>>>>>>>>> >>> it's  called
>>>>>>>>> >>> compare_standard_filters.csd
>>>>>>>>> >>> 2016-03-16 17:03 GMT+03:00 Rory Walsh <[log in to unmask]>:
>>>>>>>>> >>>      lpf18 is one of my favourites. I never noticed any CPU
>>>>>>>>> >>> problems
>>>>>>>>> >>>      with moogladder, but I never really looked either.
>>>>>>>>> >>> On 16 March 2016 at 14:01, Peter Burgess
>>>>>>>>> >>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >>>      You're right, that would be useful! I was considering
>>>>>>>>> >>> asking
>>>>>>>>> >>>      a similar
>>>>>>>>> >>>      question recently, it is a very good question.
>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>      I know they've recently introduced the mvc filters, which
>>>>>>>>> >>>      have a nice
>>>>>>>>> >>>      analogue-like characteristic. But I have wondered often if
>>>>>>>>> >>>      people have
>>>>>>>>> >>>      any preference over the unashamedly digital filters,
>>>>>>>>> >>> because
>>>>>>>>> >>>      as you
>>>>>>>>> >>>      say, there are so many.
>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>      I find myself often defaulting to bqrez for anything other
>>>>>>>>> >>>      than
>>>>>>>>> >>>      lowpass filters, because it's the only multi-mode filter
>>>>>>>>> >>>      that doesn't
>>>>>>>>> >>>      output multiple audio streams, and it makes my instrument
>>>>>>>>> >>>      less messy,
>>>>>>>>> >>>      but that's a terrible reason to use a filter! I should
>>>>>>>>> >>>      really spend
>>>>>>>>> >>>      more time comparing different filters in different
>>>>>>>>> >>>      situations and get
>>>>>>>>> >>>      to know them better.
>>>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>      On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 1:43 PM, Anton Kholomiov
>>>>>>>>> >>>      <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >>>      > There is a notion that the most important thing in the
>>>>>>>>> >>>      synthesizer is a
>>>>>>>>> >>>      > filter.
>>>>>>>>> >>>      > The quality of the filter determines the specific voice
>>>>>>>>> >>> of
>>>>>>>>> >>>      your synth.
>>>>>>>>> >>>      > Csound has wide range of filters it's easy to get lost
>>>>>>>>> >>> in
>>>>>>>>> >>>      them.
>>>>>>>>> >>>      > So what is your experience with filters?
>>>>>>>>> >>>      >
>>>>>>>>> >>>      > Which are good for pads and which are good for leads. If
>>>>>>>>> >>>      you have any
>>>>>>>>> >>>      > experience with that
>>>>>>>>> >>>      > and interested in sharing it I think that this
>>>>>>>>> >>> information
>>>>>>>>> >>>      can be useful
>>>>>>>>> >>>      > for many csound users.
>>>>>>>>> >>>      >
>>>>>>>>> >>>      >
>>>>>>>>> >>>      > 2016-03-16 16:34 GMT+03:00 Anton Kholomiov
>>>>>>>>> >>>      <[log in to unmask]>:
>>>>>>>>> >>>      >>
>>>>>>>>> >>>      >> I like the moogladder filter a lot. But unfortunately
>>>>>>>>> >>> it
>>>>>>>>> >>>      uses a lot of
>>>>>>>>> >>>      >> CPU.
>>>>>>>>> >>>      >> It's super cool filter but it's not the thing you are
>>>>>>>>> >>>      going to use on
>>>>>>>>> >>>      >> weaker PCs or mobiles.
>>>>>>>>> >>>      >> It's easy to hit the top of performance with several of
>>>>>>>>> >>>      them.
>>>>>>>>> >>>      >>
>>>>>>>>> >>>      >> Is there a good filter that is close to moogladder but
>>>>>>>>> >>>      not so heavy on
>>>>>>>>> >>>      >> resources?
>>>>>>>>> >>>      >>
>>>>>>>>> >>>      >> Another question on filters:
>>>>>>>>> >>>      >>
>>>>>>>>> >>>      >> What filter is close to Massive NI low pass 2 or low
>>>>>>>>> >>> pass
>>>>>>>>> >>>      4 filter in
>>>>>>>>> >>>      >> Csound?
>>>>>>>>> >>>      >>
>>>>>>>>> >>>      >> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> >>>      >> Anton
>>>>>>>>> >>>      >>
>>>>>>>>> >>>      >>
>>>>>>>>> >>>      >
>>>>>>>>> >>>      > Csound mailing list [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>>> >>>      > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send
>>>>>>>>> >>> bugs
>>>>>>>>> >>>      reports to
>>>>>>>>> >>>      > https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of
>>>>>>>>> >>>      bugs and features can
>>>>>>>>> >>>      > be posted here
>>>>>>>>> >>> --
>>>>>>>>> >>> http://algorythmradio.com
>>>>>>>>> >>> https://soundcloud.com/algorythmradio
>>>>>>>>> >>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>>>>> >>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>>> >>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>>>> >>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>>> >>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>>>> >>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>>>> >>> Csound mailing list [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>>> >>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs
>>>>>>>>> >>> reports to
>>>>>>>>> >>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
>>>>>>>>> >>> features
>>>>>>>>> >>> can be posted here
>>>>>>>>> >>> Csound mailing list [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>>> >>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs
>>>>>>>>> >>> reports to
>>>>>>>>> >>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and
>>>>>>>>> >>> features can
>>>>>>>>> >>> be posted here
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >> Csound mailing list
>>>>>>>>> >> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>>> >> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>>>> >> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>>> >>       https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>>>> >> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > Csound mailing list
>>>>>>>>> > [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>>> > https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>>>> > Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>>> >         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>>>> > Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> http://algorythmradio.com
>>>>>>>>> https://soundcloud.com/algorythmradio
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list
>>>>>>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND
>>>>>>>>> Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>>>         https://github.com/csound/csound/issues
>>>>>>>>> Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> _____________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Dr. Richard Boulanger
>>>>>>>> Professor of Electronic Production and Design
>>>>>>>> Professional Writing and Music Technology Division
>>>>>>>> Berklee College of Music
>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> President of Boulanger Labs - http://boulangerlabs.com
>>>>>>>> Author & Editor of The Csound Book -
>>>>>>>> http://mitpress.mit.edu/books/csound-book
>>>>>>>> Author & Editor of The Audio Programming Book -
>>>>>>>> http://mitpress.mit.edu/books/audio-programming-book
>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> about: http://www.boulangerlabs.com/about/richardboulanger/
>>>>>>>> about:
>>>>>>>> http://www.csounds.com/community/developers/dr-richard-boulanger/
>>>>>>>> music:
>>>>>>>> http://www.csounds.com/community/developers/dr-richard-boulanger/dr-richard-boulanger-music/
>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> email: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>> facebook: https://www.facebook.com/richard.boulanger.58
>>>>>>>> Csound mailing list [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
>>>>>>>> be posted here
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Csound mailing list [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>>>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
>>>>>>> be posted here
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> _____________________________________________
>>>>>> Dr. Richard Boulanger
>>>>>> Professor of Electronic Production and Design
>>>>>> Professional Writing and Music Technology Division
>>>>>> Berklee College of Music
>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>> President of Boulanger Labs - http://boulangerlabs.com
>>>>>> Author & Editor of The Csound Book -
>>>>>> http://mitpress.mit.edu/books/csound-book
>>>>>> Author & Editor of The Audio Programming Book -
>>>>>> http://mitpress.mit.edu/books/audio-programming-book
>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>> about: http://www.boulangerlabs.com/about/richardboulanger/
>>>>>> about:
>>>>>> http://www.csounds.com/community/developers/dr-richard-boulanger/
>>>>>> music:
>>>>>> http://www.csounds.com/community/developers/dr-richard-boulanger/dr-richard-boulanger-music/
>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>> email: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>> facebook: https://www.facebook.com/richard.boulanger.58
>>>>>> Csound mailing list [log in to unmask]
>>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
>>>>>> be posted here
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Csound mailing list [log in to unmask]
>>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
>>>>> be posted here
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> _____________________________________________
>>>> Dr. Richard Boulanger
>>>> Professor of Electronic Production and Design
>>>> Professional Writing and Music Technology Division
>>>> Berklee College of Music
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> President of Boulanger Labs - http://boulangerlabs.com
>>>> Author & Editor of The Csound Book -
>>>> http://mitpress.mit.edu/books/csound-book
>>>> Author & Editor of The Audio Programming Book -
>>>> http://mitpress.mit.edu/books/audio-programming-book
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> about: http://www.boulangerlabs.com/about/richardboulanger/
>>>> about: http://www.csounds.com/community/developers/dr-richard-boulanger/
>>>> music:
>>>> http://www.csounds.com/community/developers/dr-richard-boulanger/dr-richard-boulanger-music/
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> email: [log in to unmask]
>>>> facebook: https://www.facebook.com/richard.boulanger.58
>>>> Csound mailing list [log in to unmask]
>>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
>>>> be posted here
>>>
>>>
>>> Csound mailing list [log in to unmask]
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
>>> be posted here
>>>
>>> Csound mailing list [log in to unmask]
>>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
>>> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
>>> be posted here
>>
>>
>
> Csound mailing list [log in to unmask]
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CSOUND Send bugs reports to
> https://github.com/csound/csound/issues Discussions of bugs and features can
> be posted here



-- 
http://algorythmradio.com
https://soundcloud.com/algorythmradio

Csound mailing list
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