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OLD-IRISH-L  January 2012

OLD-IRISH-L January 2012

Subject:

Re: Nessan and Ailbe - help!

From:

Catherine Swift <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Scholars and students of Old Irish <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 12 Jan 2012 11:42:50 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (71 lines)

Hi everybody, 
 can anybody give me a hand with this? In the Latin life of Ailbe in the Codex Salamenticensis - there's a slightly weird story about Nessan of Mungret (chief church of the Uí Fidgeinte - south bank of Shannon - modern Limerick) going to visit and Ailbe refusing to leave the church between the ninth and third hour because he was praying. "Than Ailbe said to the deacon "Go to Nessan and sing? (canta - here tell?) this Irish verse to him:" 

Danae Dee nis frithchoirthi  selba forru niscorthi 
attoberthar na gabae sech nit muide nud chele 

The first line I get something like 
Offerings to God - do not reject them; properties <of God?> do not withdraw from them?

but I can't make head nor tail of the second - especially gabae - where all I can come up with smiths  - unless its a verbal form of gaibid ??? but if so why na? is it relative no?  and I don't know what verb could produce muide. 
  what is being said to smiths (and why they should suddenly appear out of the blue) I have no idea and why ?God?? is hiding? something ... from Nessan???? ---?????

All suggestions EXTREMELY gratefully received !!!
Cathy Swift 
________________________________________
From: Old-Irish-L [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Liz Gabay [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 12 January 2012 03:21
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OLD-IRISH-L] forests that were

Dennis King wrote:

 >The Triads of Ireland lists three forests, naming them as the "three
>wildernesses of Ireland" :
>43. Trí díthruib Hérenn: Fid Mór hi Cúailgni, Fid Déicsen hi Tuirtri,
>Fid Moithre hi Connachtaib.

Hi Dennis,
  I looked in the Onomasticon.  I found a few things that may or may
not be relevant.

"tuirtri
Turtrye dry. in d. Conor, Tax.; ¶  Connor is in it; ¶  Tuirtrech, one bred
or born in Ui T., Au. ii. 406."
"f. deicsin
i n-Uib Tuirtre in Ultaib, Hx. 946."

My note --
Turtrye was in Antrim, north of Loch Neagh, according to the Northern
Ireland placenames project, close to Toome, apparently.

     There are 3 different 'fid mór' entries, but this one looks like it might
be relevant -

"f. mór
for Anmag, for F. Mór i Crannaig Cualngi, Ll. 56 b; ¶  for F. M. .i. Truailli,
Lu. 56 a, v. Tw. p. 47; ¶  in Ulst., Lb. 25 a, Lbl. 589; ¶  Fid Mór is the
same as Fid COnaille (q.v.), N. of Dundalk, and is betw. Dundalk and
Sliab Fuait (the Fews mountain range or its highest hill); ¶  in Ar. pp.
28, 30, we see that O Donnell, in his flight fr. Wickl. to Arm., passed by
Mellifont, Sliab Breg, Machaire Conaill, Dundalk (Dún Delgan), Fiodh
Mór, where he was safe though close to the English, as his friend
Turlagh Mac Enri O Neill was chieftain there; ¶  next day he went
through Sliab Fúait Mic Breogain, northwards to Arm. In
my "Description of Ireland, anno 1598" p. 21, we read: "Fues
bordereth upon the Inglish Pale, within 3 miles of Dundalke; ¶  it is a
very strong countrie of wood and bogg peopled with certain of the O
Neills, accustomed to live much upon the spoils of the Pale, the Capten
hereof is Sir Turloghe McHenrie O Neall." W. of and close to Fid Mór is
Onomy tl. in p. Mucno, c. Mon., which I equate with Anmagh supra,
which would be pronounced Onomoy. "


The onomasticon has an entry for 'Fid Moithre hi Connachtaib' but
doesn't give any more specific information.      Liz

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