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UCD-STAFFORDBEER  November 2011

UCD-STAFFORDBEER November 2011

Subject:

Re: Did the Amsterdam Syntegration change my mind? (was Re: SWS (shared white space) - what's the point!)

From:

Roger Harnden <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 3 Nov 2011 10:16:07 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (172 lines)

I need to add my bit here.


In UK we have been singularly ignorant of the number of commercial syntegrations carried out by Icodrome during the 1990's and onwards.

I say this because one of my tasks at present is to help audit and record ALL syntegrations, and it is only now that I have become aware of all these events.

For some very strange reason, in spite of the sporadic interest in syntegration in UK (I think of Patrick and Raul amongst others), the protocol has never taken off. And, worse........very few people in UK have been interested in finding out or participating in the work carried out by MZSG or Ico Drome.


This is a pity (that some us are seeking to address) for the following reason. It led to a lower level of research and development of the process than should have been the case. Although Ico Drome conducted many experimental procedures and formats with a whole range of different types of clients, their focus was with delivery and clients needs, rather than the recording and analysis of events and ongoing rigorous development. S4 (as ever) suffered.

What might have been contributed through closer relations between UK and the continent (including US and Canada), is a higher degree of rigorous and formal experimentation, testing and further development of the protocol. I think we all know that the existing protocol can indeed be improved  further despite the success of the existing one. This might have been contributed by closer relations between the various parties.

To be fair to Malik, I think it was this that he has been trying to nurture through the events he has hosted and through CII.

Best wishes,

Roger


On 2011-11-03, at 9:15 AM, Jan Kuiper wrote:

> Trevor,
> 
> Maybe Malik is more successfull than anyone, but the world should also know that IcoDrome delivered some 90 syntegrations (>80% of them fully commercially and with profit). And delivered >50 syntegration-inspired protocols (from 4 hours to 2 days). If figures count I'd say IcoDrome also looks quite successfull. Less boasting (that's true)....
> But maybe there are (or we need) other measures for success. Mike and I are looking into possibilities to use Process Reliability measurement as a method to measure outputs of syntegrations....
> To be continued.
> I guess,
> jan
> 
> 
> *Jan Kuiper*
> 
> *Dirk van Delenhage 26*
> 
> *3437 KR Nieuwegein*
> 
> *06 53139060*
> 
> *030 6051482*
> 
> *www.kvdk.nl*
> 
> *www.icodrome.nl*
> 
> *www.expotitie.nl*
> 
> 
> Op 2-11-2011 16:21, Trevor E Hilder schreef:
>> Dear Russell,
>> 
>> You didn't expect a straight answer from a true-born Englishman, did you? :-)
>> 
>> I can now see the benefits of syntegration for specific decision-making needs, whereas I wasn't sure what use it was at all.
>> 
>> I also believe that Malik has been more successful than anyone else in applying it because people from a Germanic background are more amenable to the idea than anyone else. I took a look at some videos taken in Malik's Operation Room, where the Germanic argument applies even more strongly. The place is as clinical as an operating theatre. I can't imagine very many groups of decision-makers who would want to go anywhere near it!
>> 
>> The Amsterdam syntegration attracted a great bunch of very interesting, very well-connected people. I still prefer hanging out in bars and restaurants as a means to get to know people :-)
>> 
>> Regards,
>>  Trevor
>> 
>> On 2 Nov 2011, at 14:46, russell_c <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>> 
>>> So, is the answer to your 'change' question a 'yes' or 'no'?
>>> 
>>> Russell
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 8:44 PM, Trevor E Hilder <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>    Dear all,
>>> 
>>>    I did say I would let you know whether the Amsterdam syntegration
>>>    had changed my mind about the efficacy of the syntegration protocol.
>>> 
>>>    It was certainly very entertaining and there were some great
>>>    people there.
>>> 
>>>    I think syntegration is a powerful way to make explicit the
>>>    knowledge "locked up" in the participants, thus liberating it to
>>>    enable future action. It is most likely to be useful where there
>>>    is a recognised real need to reach a consensus leading to
>>>    necessary action.
>>> 
>>>    The opening question for Amsterdam was perhaps too broad to have
>>>    that effect, but we shall see.
>>> 
>>>    Stafford said that he designed syntegration to bring "later in
>>>    the bar" into the event itself. The best stuff for me took place
>>>    in the sessions devoted to my response to the opening question,
>>>    which was "I have no idea how to answer that", and conversations
>>>    in various bars and restaurants.
>>> 
>>>    "Later in the bar" did include getting thrown out of a bar in the
>>>    early hours of the Monday morning after the syntegration ended.
>>>    When we asked some locals where else we could go they complained
>>>    bitterly that "Amsterdam is hopeless - there isn't anywhere you
>>>    can go at 3:20 on a Monday morning" :-)
>>> 
>>>    On 30 Sep 2011, at 12:36, Trevor E Hilder wrote:
>>> 
>>>>    Dear Russell,
>>>> 
>>>>    I'm going to chuck in a provocation to this conversation, which
>>>>    applies equally to SWS, Syntegration and most of management
>>>>    consultancy.
>>>> 
>>>>    There seems to be an assumption that people would make better
>>>>    decisions, if only they had the right technical infrastructure
>>>>    and the right protocols for decision-making.
>>>> 
>>>>    But where is the evidence for this? After all, some people have
>>>>    been able to make excellent decisions since before the invention
>>>>    of reading and writing, let alone more recent communication
>>>>    technologies.
>>>> 
>>>>    It seems to me that the real reason why people make lousy
>>>>    decisions is because they don't actually want to make good
>>>>    decisions at all. They are really doing something else entirely,
>>>>    while pretending they are serious about decision-making. If they
>>>>    had any real intention to make sound decisions, they would be
>>>>    able to do so with the ample tools available.
>>>> 
>>>>    I am about to attend my first full syntegration event in
>>>>    Amsterdam. I hope that it will change my mind about this matter.
>>>> 
>>>>    At the moment, I see syntegration and most management
>>>>    consultancy offerings as a branch of the entertainment industry,
>>>>    dressed up as something more serious.
>>>> 
>>>>    Sorry guys and gals, but I remain to be convinced otherwise.
>>>>    I'll let you know whether I feel differently about it after I
>>>>    return from my trip to Amsterdam :-)
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>    --     Regards,
>>>     Trevor [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>> 
>>>    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ For
>>>    more information go to: www.metaphorum.org
>>>    <http://www.metaphorum.org> For the Metaphorum Collaborative
>>>    Working Environment (MCWE) go to: www.platformforchange.org
>>>    <http://www.platformforchange.org> METAPHORUM eList Archive
>>>    available at - https://listserv.heanet.ie/ucd-staffordbeer.html
>>>    Archive of CYBCOM eList available at -
>>>    http://hermes.circ.gwu.edu/archives/cybcom.html
>>>    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
>>> 
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org <http://www.metaphorum.org> For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to: www.platformforchange.org <http://www.platformforchange.org> METAPHORUM eList Archive available at - https://listserv.heanet.ie/ucd-staffordbeer.html Archive of CYBCOM eList available at - http://hermes.circ.gwu.edu/archives/cybcom.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to: www.platformforchange.org METAPHORUM eList Archive available at - https://listserv.heanet.ie/ucd-staffordbeer.html Archive of CYBCOM eList available at - http://hermes.circ.gwu.edu/archives/cybcom.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org
> 
> For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to:  www.platformforchange.org
> 
> METAPHORUM eList Archive available at - https://listserv.heanet.ie/ucd-staffordbeer.html
> 
> Archive of CYBCOM eList available at - http://hermes.circ.gwu.edu/archives/cybcom.html
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org

For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to:  www.platformforchange.org

METAPHORUM eList Archive available at - https://listserv.heanet.ie/ucd-staffordbeer.html

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