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OLD-IRISH-L  August 2011

OLD-IRISH-L August 2011

Subject:

Re: 'Samhoin so' 31 & 32

From:

Janet Crawford <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Scholars and students of Old Irish <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 7 Aug 2011 12:23:15 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (132 lines)

Lenore, Uaithne Cliach was a place:

Uaithne Cliach or Owney Beg or Uaithne Bec or Owneycliach or
Owthneybeg als. Uaithne of Cliu:

Owneybeg, c. Limerick, ALC-ndx. Aliter the children of Conall Cernach,
i.e. Eoghan & Ailill & Fen Fer Tlachtga (also named) Cathnia,
Druithnia, & Uaithnia i.e. (the ancestors of ) Uaithni Thire, &
Uaithni of Cliu, quod fortasse verius (est).

BB 94, LL 325, Caithréim Thoirdealbhaigh (23 F 14), 266; at Loch
Deircdeircc (Lough Derg), Lec. 454; b. Owney Beg, c. Limerick, AU-ndx,
AFM-ndx, BR (ed. O'D),  Topographical Poems, MacFirbis, Genealogies,
503, 681, Misc Celt Soc, 42, Stonyhurst MS B 120, Leabhar Branach,
156; in it is Abbey Owney, al. Abington p. in d. Emly. Uaithne Cliach:
q.v., was in Clíu, which is the b. of Owneybeg, Top. Poems, 128, AU i
432, Uaithne-Cliach, now the barony of Owneybeg, in the east of the
county of Limerick. Uaithne-Cliach, of bright green land, Is the
country of O'h-Ifearnain.

Uaithne Fidbaide or Fidhbhaigh or Fhiodbuide:
in Munster, CGG (ed. Todd), 30; als. Uaithne Bec or Uaithne Cliach,
the b. of Owney Beg in NE. of c. Limerick; Uaithne Fidbuide, RC xviii
11; Uaithne Fidbhaide CS-ndx, DAI=H. 1.7, 28.

O’Huidhrin in Top. Poem shows that from early times, Uaithne was
divided into 2 districts Uaithne-Tire, present barony of Owney, Co.
Tipp, to which is joined Ara; and Uaithne - Cliath or - Fidhbhaigh
(the wooded) which comprises of parts of parishes of Abington and Doon
and whole parish of Tuogh. Ó Briain plundered all the territories of
the Uí Blait and the Uaithne i Cuanachaib [in Coonagh, probably Doon]
and brought the booty to C. DAI=H. 1.7, 70a.

Uaithne or Owney als. Auteini:
Auteine - a map drawn up by Ptolemy in 150 AD shows the Auteini on the
west coast of Ireland. This tribe is 'later identified as the Uaithne
of County Limerick and Tipperary'.  The word Uaithne appears first (on
the aforementioned website) on a map of Ireland (with the subtitle
'Royal provinces and sites - circa 300AD), in Clare, just north of
Limerick.  The word Uaithne appears again on another map subtitled
'Lesser kingdoms and other Dynasties, 700AD', with the Dal Cais (north
of Limerick) as a kingdom and Uaithne (just south of Limerick, in
County Limerick) as a dynasty. Similarly, both the Dal Cais and
Uaithne appear in similar positions on a map of Munster (the south
west corner of Ireland, including Clare) in 750AD. Uaithnia, Druithnia
& Cannia [Cathnia] appear to be artificial eponyms of the Uaithni.

I would assume that Conchobhar Cliach would also be a place and so
might Gadhro be, but they are out of my area of comfort. I'll poke
around tho'.

Janet


On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 11:13 AM, lenore fischer
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> My thanks to Dennis, Janet and Liz for work on verse 31.  It looks like we
>> now have:
>>
>>  31.
>>>
>>
>>  Clann Conaill, sīol Eoghoin Mōir,
>>> secht ccatha dōibh, fa céim ard,
>>> ēirgitt re hanfadh a ffercc
>>> do dhul a nGlenn Gercc ar Tadg.
>>>
>>> 31. The race of Conaill, seed of Eoghan Mor
>
> seven battalions of them, of high fame
>
> they rise in a storm of anger
>
> going to Glenn Gercc against Tadg.
>
>
> Going on to verse 32, thanks to Caoimhin and Dennis we have:
>
> 32. Gairmther caismirt rēidh mo rīg,
>
> gor ēirigh síol Maine mōir,
>
> im Gadhro, im Choncobhar Clīach,
>
> im rīgh Soghain [Sodhain MS] na scīath n-ōir.
>
>
> 32. The clear battle call of my king is sounded,
>
> till the seed of great Maine rose up
>
> around Gadhro, around Conchobhar Clíach
>
> around the king of Soghan of the golden shield.
>
>
> Now, going back to Soghain, Dennis, if you cast your mind or your cursor
> back to the first verse, you will find that Ard Soghain was one of the
> places that Mac Liag had to cross to get from Dal Cais to Tadhg's court in
> Ui Maine, and which Neill described at the time as 'the Uí Maine territory
> immediately to the west of Rícinn's home kingdom of Crumthann'.  A d/g
> alternation was indicated in Meyer's footnotes at that point.  We will be
> getting a lot more place names in the verses to come, and I have a sinking
> feeling that I'm going to have to try and create one of Neill's 'mud maps'
> (what a wonderful term, wherever does it come from?).  Pat Murray also
> pointed out back then that there is an 'Ard na Sodan' about 20 miles NE of
> Galway City.  As Janet says in her remarks, there were a number of different
> Sogan groups; Hogan does list one in Meath, which Janet's sources name, but
> Hogan feels most of them were in Ui Maine.
>
> Another thing I'm very interested in is who 'Gadhro' and 'Conchobhar Cliach'
> may be.  So far the cast of characters seems to be chronologically
> challenged, what with Tadg trying to push single combat on a man who we
> believe to be his contemporary's grandson.  I just tried (first time ever
> doing this) typing in these names into CELT's search engine on their home
> page, but in both cases got no results; that is, for Conchobhar Cliach I got
> Conchobhar Cliche and various people of Uaithne-Cliach.  Has anyone any
> useful tips to offer me?  I feel that once we've worked out what the
> story-line of the poem is at all, at all, that working out who these
> incidental characters are may well be the next most productive line of
> inquiry for me, as it might give a fix on which courts the author of the
> poem is concerned with, which might in turn shed light on the politics of
> his time, and in turn help point out when that time might have been.  Oh my
> god, what a string of 'if's and 'mights'.
>
> Well, that's a pile off my chest.  I think I'll go out and mow some lawn
> before I tackle the next verses.
>
> Lenore
>

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