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Subject: Re: cents/kg?
From: Andreas Schuenhoff <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:[log in to unmask]
Date:Mon, 1 Aug 2011 10:24:55 +0100
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Did my message get posted? Please check below if you didn't see it earlier, if not please accept my apologies for the double.

-----Original Message-----
From: Andreas Schuenhoff [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
Sent: Donnerstag, 28. Juli 2011 23:26
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: cents/kg?

Dear all,

I think it has been tried over and over to do something with such biomass in large quantities and not only recently, no, since the oil crisis in the 70's.
The question needs to be asked why in 40 years there are so "few" economic publications on this matter. Anyway, you could say, I had my reasons to move on.

As brilliant an idea it would seem, there is currently no feasible way to turn this into anything worth the while an economic consideration - due to the elevated cost of just preparing it for any kind of use. As Carlos below points out, most scientists look at this small scale and have no problem hand-netting a clean sample, washing it and placing it into a centrifuge and so on. My former colleagues and I know just as a few more people out there what it means to do this with just a few tons of it. We also quickly turned our attention to potentially higher value species to find some kind of economic use but not even this proved to be a short term option for further upscale.

Any application involves a constant and reliable supply, high use of energy, water, equipment and manpower, just 1kg processed dry weight would have to value at least €0.50, just to make this effort on a commercial scale remotely viable, that's 10kg processed wet weight after centrifuge if I recall correctly. And, I'm glad no one mentioned feeding it to anything. The stuff is already rotting on the beach when collected. 

From a less scientific view, and apart from trying to manage nutrient runoff as well as possible, let's just try and live with these blooms, they are not the end of the world. 

And if you have to collect it to keep the tourists happy (just think of the additional impact on flora and fauna), some hope may lie in the conversion into diesel, there's plenty of research out there and why not chuck in the odd bloom that comes for free as it has to be collected anyway. All details of the behavior of this biomass would need to be checked but just do a search on diesel+garbage or start watching here as an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk-CwBWY1Lc it would be nice to know if anyone is aware if there is any research on using wet, rotting seaweed with this technology.

It must still be said that this technology is nowhere near wide scale application and  may prove to be utterly useless until USD400/gal but anyway, maybe one day someone smart will pick up on this.

Best wishes from an old seaweed and renewables fan,

Andreas
Portugal

-----Original Message-----
From: Forum for marine, freshwater and terrestrial algae. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Carlos Guillermo Velez
Sent: Donnerstag, 28. Juli 2011 21:43
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: GREEN TIDES: My final 2 cents?

Dear David:
"SODIUM IN MARINE PLANTS: This is just one more of the many myths that are
floating around marine plants. Ascophyllum has about 30% ash and up to 4 %
Sodium and this has never been a problem."

I think that your data about sodium content of marine algae are for algal
biomass itself (i.e. rinsed with freshwater). But the harvested and dried
bulk biomass is always salty (it comes soaked in seawater). And rinsing
adds a problem to the solution... Spoil freshwater is also environmentally
undesirable.

Cheers,
Carlos
>                     allo allo
> SeaVegetables/Seaweeds/Marine-Plants/Sargazos/Algas
>      Marinhas/Kaiso Gang
>
>          Just a couple of reality checks . . . .
>
>          SODIUM IN MARINE PLANTS: This is just one more of the many myths
>        that are floating around marine plants. Ascophyllum has
> about 30         % ash and up to 4 % Sodium and this has never
> been a problem.         Marine plants are extremely good for
> farms [both fields and         animals] so just a little bit will
> go a long way . . . .
>
>          SEASONALITY OF THE GREEN TIDES / LACK OF REVENUE: Why are we
>    looking at this issue strictly from the point of view of an
>      investor that has to report profits every quarter and
> revenue is         his/her only parameter? Think about the
> gazilions of         Euros/Dollars spent in emergency and/or
> maintenance equipment         that will be infrequently  [or
> never] used. Think that in Small         Town America we are
> proud of our extremely expensive fire-trucks         and we are
> happy if they are used only during Independence Day
> parades . . .  In various beaches around the world
> beach-grooming equipment is used and the towns are the ones that
>        get the bill. But in some town they just truck the harvest
> to         the dump. What a waste . . .
>
>          BTW, here is "small town" Maine we actuality love seasonality.
>      Many fishermen/women slave themselves during summers and
> take a         break during winters, The same goes with the
> tourist industry.
>
>          HOW GREEN ARE MARINE PLANT FARM PRODUCTS? Way, way greener than
>       petroleum based fertilizers . . . And they are also
> renewable.         Farm products can be minimally processed
> products such as dried         and milled. The farmers buy "kelp"
> meals. 100% of the raw         material becomes product [minus
> the water]. If one makes liquid         products [ala Maxicrop];
> sure there are reagents involved but         they are not wasted.
> They become part of the product and there         are no waste
> streams from such a process. Very, very green         indeed . .
> .
>
>          BOTTOM LINE: Yes! The best would be not having green tides . . .
>        . until then, let us put those green monsters to good use
> . . .         .
>
>          David
>             --  David E Myslabodski Great SeaVegetables Rockland ME 04841
> [log in to unmask] 1 207 404 9870 Office
>  ALGAE-L
>  Algae-L is a listerver list for the phycological community; you are
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>  You can get further information and unsubscribe at
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Dr. Carlos G. Vélez
Departamento de Biodiversidad y Biología Experimental
Facultad de Ciencias Exactas y Naturales
Universidad de Buenos Aires
C1428EGA Buenos Aires-ARGENTINA

ALGAE-L
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