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UCD-STAFFORDBEER  March 2011

UCD-STAFFORDBEER March 2011

Subject:

Re: Societary "food chains"

From:

Luc Hoebeke <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 9 Mar 2011 13:21:54 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (61 lines)

Dear Wladimir,

I think some help is needed by Alan to clarify what you are referring  
to.
Nevertheless I give it a try:

Apparently more complex biological systems live from less complex  
ones. Take care: complex in the eye of the human observer. But  
Cybernetics has learned me to look in a more cyclical way. More  
complex organizations are also more fragile than less complex ones.  
When they break down, they break down in less complex systems. Eg:  
worms are feeding on the remains of mammals. This is the reason I  
write that even if the human species disappears from the earth, life  
shall go on. Again, the tendency to greater complexity is in the eye  
of the observer. And not a natural law, although the ideas of Teilhard  
de Chardin are very seductive. Nevertheless this cyclical nature of  
the feeding chain is a humbling experience.

Kind regards,
Luc


Op 9-mrt-11, om 12:39 heeft Vladimir het volgende geschreven:

> I ask you to reflect upon a model described above.
> In "Decision and Control" Stafford Beer wrote a chapter under a  
> title "Self-organizing systems". This chapter describes a situation  
> where more organized system must feed and grow at the expense (and  
> in the direction) of less organized one , because less organized  
> system has not consumed its energy to organize itself, so entropy  
> evens out this rest of energy between these systems. Thus energy  
> flows from MOS to LOS.
> Sometimes I hear from people about energetic vampirism and feel how  
> this happens with myself while interacting with others.
> We also have Beer's model of CHRONIC Societary Triage, where he  
> describes inability of some categories of people to become more  
> organized due to their complex identities oppressed by ideology. He  
> also wrote in this article about stable flow of resources from less  
> organized people to more organized ones and mentioned existance of  
> many intermediate categories of people between described in details  
> basic A, B, and C.
> Thus we can imagine self-organizing network of people fixedly  
> organized in various degree minimizing social vampirism along  
> relations which this network consists of.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ For  
> more information go to: www.metaphorum.org For the Metaphorum  
> Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to: www.platformforchange.org 
>  METAPHORUM eList Archive available at - https://listserv.heanet.ie/ucd-staffordbeer.html 
>  Archive of CYBCOM eList available at - http://hermes.circ.gwu.edu/archives/cybcom.html 
>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org

For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to:  www.platformforchange.org

METAPHORUM eList Archive available at - https://listserv.heanet.ie/ucd-staffordbeer.html

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