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UCD-STAFFORDBEER  March 2010

UCD-STAFFORDBEER March 2010

Subject:

Re: Military Use & "Control" over the Web

From:

"Wright, Steve" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 3 Mar 2010 19:49:20 -0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (158 lines)

Roger,
 
Absolutely. And as the number of nodes and connections grows, the less dependent will the entire edifice eventually be on some of the existing military architecture. Some of these issues were covered in our Palgrave book Cyberwar, netwar and the revolution in military affairs but almost all public commentary is outdated by the rapid rate of change in this domain.  But every so often it is worth reminding ourselves that the web like facebook  is a military and intelligence product. But you are right too to remind us again a system is what a system does and we have this  remarkable akashic-like tribute to human ingenuity. As Neil Young puts it...long may we run... or have I been watching too much of the Winter Olympics...  I imagine in some future time writers will no longer quote correspondence of key players but do  forensic archaeology of the zillions of email and other electronic records that now comprise our electronically shared memory.
 
Steve

________________________________

From: Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer on behalf of Roger Harnden
Sent: Wed 03/03/2010 18:34
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Military Use & "Control" over the Web



Steve,


Any of us naive 'laypersons' know exactly what you mean from 
mainsrteam films, such as the 'Bourne" series. I don't think any of 
that takes away from the point I am making. I am not making any point 
about the powers that be, but simply saying the balance of powor is 
shifting,

IN other words, Steve, I don't believe it matters how much is 
controlled by the military/industrial complex. What is significant is 
how much remains uncontrollled, or perhaps, better, out of control. 
Therein lies the novelty, Steve, because that 'uncontrolled' is 
historically speaking unique.


Roger
On 3 Mar 2010, at 16:29, Wright, Steve wrote:

> Hi Roger,
>
> These are fine insights. However, I would like to add some further
> points.
>
>
> 1. There is not just one universal shared web. The Western Military 
> most
> notably the US have their own secure part of the network that is
> isolated from the rest of us.
>
> 2. US Military own key elements of the web infrastructure. If needs
> must, some of this  military satellite piggypacked infrastructure 
> can be
> simply switched off.
>
> 3. People might be astonished at just how much of our email traffic is
> routed through the US. More shocking perhaps is how much of this 
> traffic
> is filtered through just several buildings in one city run by US
> intelligence agencies. See Stephen Grahams presentations;-
>
> http://vimeo.com/8890155
>
> Future wars will be orientated towards taking such infrastructure out
> and already weapons technology is available on the international arms
> markets to do this including everything from missiles to breifcases
> using high-powererd microwaves to disable compures, vehicles and
> telecommunications. A key future challenge will be to harden some of 
> the
> necessary carrying infrastructure and to build in super redundancy so
> that no one state can switch off or intercept the contents of all the
> others....
>
> Steve
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Roger 
> Harnden
> Sent: 03 March 2010 15:43
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: the Web (re: the future of Internet)
>
> The interesting thing about the future of internet is that it will cut
> through ALL OF OUR prejudices.
>
> Sure, the red-neck hill billy will have a voice, as will the Islamic
> fundamentalist, as will the atheist, as will Roger Harnden - but ALL
> of them will be in the mix, and only some of them will be attractive
> to 'all of the people all of the time' (Bob Dylan).
>
> The only ones scared of it should be those of us - and that side of
> EACH of us - who feel uneasy about co-existence with 'the other'.
> And, every State and every Prejudice, will be scared by this and will
> attempt to diffuse the possibility that all ' the others' have a 
> voice.
>
> And - Frank - this is not because of any intrinsic 'big brother' or
> 'expertise - but because the Web is uncontrollable except in 'local
> pockets'.
>
> The Web itself is not a vantage or pulpit, but a CHANNEL or an order
> of magnitude greater than any that might have been conceived by
> McCluhan. Pulpits and expertises will hustle each other for space in
> this medium, but each will fail - or, more accurately, will rise,
> variously dominate, and disappear in an endless flow.
>
> Roger
>
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To view the terms under which this email is distributed, please go to http://disclaimer.leedsmet.ac.uk/email.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org

For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to:  www.platformforchange.org

METAPHORUM eList Archive available at - https://listserv.heanet.ie/ucd-staffordbeer.html

Archive of CYBCOM eList available at - http://hermes.circ.gwu.edu/archives/cybcom.html
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