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UCD-STAFFORDBEER  November 2009

UCD-STAFFORDBEER November 2009

Subject:

Re: VSM as a principle of evolution

From:

Arthur Dijkstra <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:03:20 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (96 lines)

Roger,
My knowledge of evolutionary principles is limited. I was thinking of a
description of the VSM as a principle for organisational evolution. This in
a Darwinian sense. Sys 1,2,3 as producing itself and sys 4,5 as maintaining
structural coupling with the environment with a desired identity.
I think about A evolutionary principle not THE evolutionary principle.
Thanks,
Arthur

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] Namens Roger Harnden
Verzonden: donderdag 19 november 2009 10:10
Aan: [log in to unmask]
Onderwerp: Re: VSM as a principle of evolution

It depends what you mean by 'evolutionary principle' - seriously.

Jacob Bronowski saw it as a sort of ratchet affair in which the  
ratchet could only click one way, but might not reverse. Darwin as we  
all know had a version of natural selection and survival of the  
fittest that closely mirrored certain ideological factors. These were  
exagerated by the later 'social darwinists'. Maturana would accomodate  
genes, but see these as granting a predisposition for particualr  
epigenetic developments in congruence with environmental dynamics.  
Others would see the gene itself as driving evolution. Jansch saw it  
as an evolutionary unfolding in a series of symmetry breaks best  
described in terms of an opening spiral. Chardin saw this process  
driven by an end-point - the noosphere - a unified variegated joint  
experience for all humanity

Stafford himself at various places traces certain aspects of the model  
in terms of increasing complexity of interactions that loosely mirror  
the trajectory of simple life forms, aggregates,  complex organisms,  
groups of organisms (society), languaging, mentation and the  
spiritual. Thus S2 triggers a change of state from isolated unities  
into an aggregate, which,though a recognisable aggregate, has no  
higher order functions (think of slime mould). With S3 he have the  
flickers of organic unity, in terms of which the parts now are  
internalised and subservient to a 'high order' simple unity. There is  
memory but no reflection of foresight. With S4, of course there is the  
introduction of higher functions of the nervous system and brain, a  
hightened circular loop between inside and outside, and the flickering  
of foresight and reflection as in emerging humankind. With S5 we see  
an awakening of the very highest human functions.

Roger


On 19 Nov 2009, at 07:56, Arthur Dijkstra wrote:

> Dear all,
> Would you agree to the statement that the VSM is a way to explain the
> evolutionary principle ?
> I think of two requirements for survival as producing itself and
> (continued)adaption to the environment.
> Thanks for your comments,
> Arthur
>
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