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UCD-STAFFORDBEER  November 2009

UCD-STAFFORDBEER November 2009

Subject:

Re: The Next 100 Years ($2.50 causes ***in hospitals***)

From:

Nick Green <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 30 Nov 2009 03:06:35 -0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (254 lines)

Frank

Is there anything wrong with Type 2 people simply going on to the Atkins 
diet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkins_diet

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Frank Wood" <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 11:16 PM
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Next 100 Years ($2.50 causes ***in hospitals***)

> Not just secrecy Nick, but complicity.
>
> There is a growing revolt amongst Type 2 diabetics over the issue of 
> carbohydrates. At the moment the thinking amongst a great number of  the 
> medical establishment is that a diet high in carbohydrates and low  in fat 
> is best for Diabetics. The thinking is that when the body is  starved of 
> carbs it starts to burn off fat as energy which is  converted into 
> ketones. So far so good. But what many in the medical  profession are 
> getting confused about is that they are confusing  dietary ketosis with 
> Ketoacidosis which is completely different.  Ketoacidosis has to have a 
> combination of high blood sugar with lack  of insulin and this does not 
> occur in diabetics who have well  controlled blood glucose levels.
>
> The result of this confusion is that the so called experts who should 
> know better are STILL claiming that a low fat, high carb diet is best.  As 
> a result the American Diabetes Association and Diabetes UK are  still 
> touting recipes for Type 2s that are dangerously high in carbs.  Time and 
> time again T2s over here have complained that the diets  recommended in 
> their magazine are not safe for Type 2s but we are  ignored. What's even 
> worse I notice that in latest edition of  "Balance" they've now omitted 
> the amount of carbohydrates contained in  each recipe that they recommend!
>
> This is medical fascism at its worst. But diabetics are getting smart  and 
> learning to trust their own bodies through regular testing of  their 
> blood. The main worry is that the passive type of patient will  listen to 
> the rubbish put forward by these "experts" and as a result  seriously 
> damage their health.
>
> Things are changing slowly in the medical establishment but not with 
> Diabetes UK or American Diabetes Association as far as I can see.
>
> Frank
>
> On 29 Nov 2009, at 22:52, Nick Green wrote:
>
>> Thanks Frank. Brain Jarman (Dr Foster) is another good guy. I said  he 
>> should be doing his thing in realtime. He said he was. If you can  call 
>> once a month and an annual report real time- so I  gently  corrected him. 
>> Point is a doctor logs in for his shift and he is  told one of his 
>> patients has MRSA and has been isolated. We're up  and running and 
>> anybody anywhere wanting to know how many MRSA cases  there are today can 
>> easily find out. It's the secrecy that allows  these things to go 
>> unchallenged. My Liverpool friend's son with MRSA  was put into a five 
>> person room with transplant patients! is that  criminal? The age at which 
>> a given doctor's patients dies might be a  good indicator of the doctor 
>> and the procedures applied. GP's have  about 8 deaths a year and hospital 
>> doctors (because there are so  many of them and about half deaths are in 
>> hospital) about 3. Of  course it's skewed because junior doctors do all 
>> the routine stuff.  But what do they actually do? Add in a couple of 
>> out-patient clinics  per week 2-3 hours each. And then 5-10 minutes with 
>> his 2.5 the bed  patients each day. In actual fact you could have a 
>> couple of doctors  on a ward all the time- except that might lead to 
>> excessive  interventions- recall the doctors who went on strike and the 
>> death  rate went down.
>> http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/320/7249/1561
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Frank Wood" <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 9:30 PM
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: Re: The Next 100 Years ($2.50 causes ***in hospitals***)
>>
>>> Excellent website Nick. I've bookmarked it in my action folder.
>>>
>>> Maybe someone should set up a Rakontu site to catalogue horror  stories 
>>> from the NHS.
>>>
>>> Frank
>>>
>>> On 29 Nov 2009, at 21:05, Nick Green wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes Frank I'm afraid a few criminal prosecutions are long overdue. 
>>>> Indeed a couple of years ago I sat briefly on a local police  liaison 
>>>> board. I told the Chief Super there was more grave crime  committed  in 
>>>> Hospitals than in the High Street (Camden). He  harrumphed and 
>>>> muttered something about it being a matter for the  Home Office. 
>>>> Anyway a few weeks later his opposite number in  Islington (a nearby 
>>>> London Borough) did an "executive life swap"  for a week with the  head 
>>>> of a large hospital trust- so there may  be some hope. I'd say  the 
>>>> police here are well aware of what is  going on but it needs a  nice 
>>>> open and shut case to turn things  round. But we must continue  to 
>>>> press for reform here. A few years  ago I did this website which 
>>>> attempted to alert people to these  problems. http:// www.ppif.org.uk/. 
>>>> VSM long overdue here.
>>>>
>>>> We're a long way from being able to sign up to any euthanasia   program 
>>>> with any confidence.
>>>>
>>>> Best
>>>>
>>>> N.
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> From: "Frank Wood" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 4:05 PM
>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Subject: Re: The Next 100 Years ($2.50 causes ***in hospitals***)
>>>>
>>>>> I'm glad, Nick, you've highlighted the myth of the overworked 
>>>>> hospital doctor.
>>>>>
>>>>> I had a friend who said that when they work "long hours" much of 
>>>>> that time they spend sleeping in their  bunks at the hospital as 
>>>>> they are paid to be on standby. Nothing wrong with that but we  are 
>>>>> fed the nonsense that they are over worked. Ditto for nurses  and 
>>>>> supporting staff if your calculations are right.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have listened to horror stories from people who have visited 
>>>>> hopsitals to see patients. It's not overwork that's causing the 
>>>>> errors, it's a "couldn't give a damn" attitude. Again we're fed   with 
>>>>> the image of nurses as angels. Sure there are some good  ones  but the 
>>>>> ones I observe are patronising at best and almost   downright evil at 
>>>>> worst.
>>>>>
>>>>> A friend of mine fell (their story) when she attempted to get  off 
>>>>> the toilet. They found her unconscious on the floor. We  don't know 
>>>>> how long she was there for and we don't know if that  fall hastened 
>>>>> her death a few days later.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've heard from friends and relatives of two cases where charts   were 
>>>>> left on the wrong beds.
>>>>>
>>>>> If these people were sent to jail then they might start caring  and 
>>>>> doing the job they are paid to do.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the railways you only have to endanger life to risk getting a 
>>>>> jail sentence.
>>>>>
>>>>> Frank
>>>>>
>>>>> On 29 Nov 2009, at 15:10, Nick Green wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Right yes, Luc, a rather poor joke by me. You can see Latour 
>>>>>> modernity by-passed in, of all things, medicine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In UK news today there's a text book example of the  irresponsible 
>>>>>> science- politics nexus from the basically  unaccountable National 
>>>>>> Health Service. Unaccountable because  error rates have no formal 
>>>>>> controls and were barely counted at  all until recently. Reporting 
>>>>>> of errors by anybody is resisted  rather than welcomed as vital 
>>>>>> feedback.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some years ago Sir Brian Jarman (ex Chairman of British Medical 
>>>>>> Association- the Doctors trade union) realised that people die  in 
>>>>>> hospital for the wrong reasons. His analysis of patient risk  and 
>>>>>> viability bears some study. He addresses preventable errors  (e.g. 
>>>>>> Poor nursing care, misdiagnosis, filthy wards producing   unnecessary 
>>>>>> deaths) in UK hospitals. Learned references are  given  at the 
>>>>>> Imperial College site.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BBC Reports
>>>>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/nov/29/nhs-hospitals-safety-report
>>>>>> Dr Foster website
>>>>>> http://www.drfosterintelligence.co.uk/
>>>>>> University base
>>>>>> http://www1.imperial.ac.uk/medicine/about/divisions/ephpc/pcsm/research/drfosters/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Usual story: ghastly bureaucrats with no incentive for quality 
>>>>>> doing fuck all or nothing as we say in polite society. Add in  the 
>>>>>> elite: surgeons who by and large won't work at weekends,   on 
>>>>>> Fridays or Wednesday afternoons.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The name Dr Foster ( a character who avoids unpleasantness)  comes 
>>>>>> from the children's nursery rhyme. As a word "foster"  means nurture.
>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Foster
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The NHS is basically a low pay uneducated culture: in  hospitals 
>>>>>> about 75,000 autopoietic and underworked doctors are  supported by 
>>>>>> more than 1 million (mostly low pay) staff  serving, at any one  time 
>>>>>> about, 185,000 patients in a bed.  That is an extraordinary  variety 
>>>>>> equation. Fewer staff getting  in each others way and more  hand 
>>>>>> washing would be the "$2.50  relay" solution here. Far too  much 
>>>>>> statistically naive (false  positive rates are largely  unknown) time 
>>>>>> wasting ritual  bullshit that only the gullible can  believe survives 
>>>>>> in UK's  NHS -and elsewhere I wouldn't doubt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best
>>>>>>
>>>>>> N.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Luc Hoebeke
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 8:23 AM
>>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>> Subject: Re: The Next 100 Years ($2.50 causes)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Nick,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No missing vowel. In Serb and Croat languages this r is   pronounced 
>>>>>> er as in her.
>>>>>> Having followed this thread, I learn how the old responsibility 
>>>>>> avoiding mechanism between Pope and Emperor has shifted towards 
>>>>>> Science and Politics. We never have been modern as Bruno Latour 
>>>>>> eloquently argues in his book with the same title.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Luc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Op 29-nov-09, om 03:17 heeft Nick Green het volgende geschreven:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brklacic an imperfect clone of Stafford? The missing vowel in  his 
>>>>>> name surely proves this. Anyway New Scientist went with  this  saying 
>>>>>> this week "Climate researchers have been inundated  with  what feels 
>>>>>> like malicious demands for their data" Why  aren't the  data 
>>>>>> downloadable and come to that how about a  listing of their 
>>>>>>  program - like the Meadows etc did with Limits  to Growth.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: russell_c
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 9:53 PM
>>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>> Subject: Re: The Next 100 Years ($2.50 causes)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And just when you thought is was safe to believe the simple story:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Hacked climate change email furore" -- Hacked climate change 
>>>>>> emails  - a tempest in a teapot or a real storm? Paul Jay talks  to 
>>>>>> Michael  Brklacic, November 28, 2009. 

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