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UCD-STAFFORDBEER  October 2009

UCD-STAFFORDBEER October 2009

Subject:

Re: New Economics in the Classic Mode

From:

Stuart Umpleby <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 28 Oct 2009 23:34:55 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (144 lines)

I received no funds from George Soros for the ASC.  I did write an
article explaining Soros's theory of reflexivity, which I think is a
very important contribution to philosophy and social science,
including economics.  See
http://www.gwu.edu/~umpleby/recent_papers/2007_SRBS_Reflexivity_Theory.pdf.
 In my opinion Soros's work is very close to second order cybernetics.
 Indeed it provides a connection between second order cybernetics and
economics, finance, and political science.  Hence, his work is an
important application of recent cybernetics thinking, thus
demonstrating the practical relevance of cybernetics.  Although he
developed his ideas outside the community of cyberneticians and
systems scientists, his ideas are quite compatible.
   I think that climate change and the financial crisis are two trends
that are bringing about renewed interest in systems science.  If you
read Soros's work, you will quickly see the relationship between the
financial crisis and systems science.  Indeed, I have recently
suggested that "reflexivity" should succeed "complexity" as the next
step in the systems sciences.  See www.gwu.edu/~uscs.


On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Stefan Wasilewski <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Thanks for your faith in me Ern!
> Now you've made me think...................and I'll hold you to the friends
> assistance bit..
> Still thinking!
> Stefan
> On 28 Oct 2009, at 11:32, Ern Reynolds wrote:
>
> Stefan,
>
> Please do write the book yourself.  With your specialized experience and
> unifying viewpoint, coupled with whatever examples and critiques you
> could draw from your fans on this listserv along the way, such a work would
> start out with a rapid research base that most authors would envy.
>
> Soros' book The Alchemy of Finance: Reading the Mind of the Market, (Simon &
> Schuster, New York 1987) was a freebie handout in a graduate cybernetics
> class I enjoyed around 1990.  In it he did give a fine explanation
> of reflexivity in the stock market.
>
> If truly guided by compelling insights from the Viable Systems Model, a new
> improved economics framework could be expected to turn out a whole lot more
> conservative than Soros' personal political inclinations.  I once got on
> Stafford's grumpy side with my paper "The Tory Stafford Beer" (Thatcher was
> anathema to him), until we met and my further explanation of his own work
> mollified him.
>
> Lesson taken was this:  today's political liberals (the classic advocates of
> state dictation) always carry regulatory matters too far, while today's
> political conservatives (the classic liberals) instinctively stop short of
> going far enough.  The VSM demonstrates just how far one could and should
> go!
>
> Ern Reynolds
>
> On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 08:36:57 +0000 Stefan Wasilewski <[log in to unmask]>
> writes:
>> I'm afraid I'm so cynical of Soros's attempts and all the people he
>>
>> gets are the same old dominant logic.
>>
>> further!
>>
>> I have a mind to write the book myself!
>>
>> Stefan
>>
>> On 28 Oct 2009, at 00:19, BARRY A CLEMSON wrote:
>>
>> > George Soros is putting some serious money into trying to develop
>> a
>> > new, improved economics framework.
>> > The Newsweek article in the previous email provides some of the
>> > details.
>> >
>> > Barry
>> >
>> > BARRY  CLEMSON
>> > www.barryclemson.net
>> > 757-622-6673
>> > Cybernetica Press Inc
>> > Denmark Rising is now available at my web site
>> >
>> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> > For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org
>> >
>> > For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to:
>>  www.platformforchange.org
>> >
>> > METAPHORUM eList Archive available at -
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/ucd-staffordbeer.html
>> >
>> > Archive of CYBCOM eList available at -
>> http://hermes.circ.gwu.edu/archives/cybcom.html
>> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org
>>
>> For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to:
>> www.platformforchange.org
>>
>> METAPHORUM eList Archive available at -
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/ucd-staffordbeer.html
>>
>> Archive of CYBCOM eList available at -
>> http://hermes.circ.gwu.edu/archives/cybcom.html
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ For more
> information go to: www.metaphorum.org For the Metaphorum Collaborative
> Working Environment (MCWE) go to: www.platformforchange.org METAPHORUM eList
> Archive available at - https://listserv.heanet.ie/ucd-staffordbeer.html
> Archive of CYBCOM eList available at -
> http://hermes.circ.gwu.edu/archives/cybcom.html
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ For more
> information go to: www.metaphorum.org For the Metaphorum Collaborative
> Working Environment (MCWE) go to: www.platformforchange.org METAPHORUM eList
> Archive available at - https://listserv.heanet.ie/ucd-staffordbeer.html
> Archive of CYBCOM eList available at -
> http://hermes.circ.gwu.edu/archives/cybcom.html
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



-- 
Stuart Umpleby, Research Program in Social and Organizational Learning
2033 K Street NW, Suite 230, The George Washington University,
Washington, DC 20052
www.gwu.edu/~umpleby, tel. 202-994-1642, fax 202-994-5284

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org

For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to:  www.platformforchange.org

METAPHORUM eList Archive available at - https://listserv.heanet.ie/ucd-staffordbeer.html

Archive of CYBCOM eList available at - http://hermes.circ.gwu.edu/archives/cybcom.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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