Thanks - really interesting suggestions and reflections,
On 12 Oct 2009, at 20:31, Czeslaw Mesjasz wrote:
> Dear All,
> Before formulating a "theme" I wanted to share with you some of my
> methodological/epistemological doubts.
> Incidentally I know relatively well the "cybernetics and systems
> scientific movement - institutions, groups and people.
> First and foremost all those people (or us - I find myself as a part
> that "flock"), claim to deal with multi- and interdisciplinarity,
> systems and cybernetics. Usually there is not clear delineation
> between systems thinking/research/approach and cybernetics and/or,
> for example, sociocybernetics.
> So I have some doubts when defnining what falls into cybernetics and
> systems thinking and the like worshipped by various
> For instance what are the relations between say, Luhmann and Beer, CAS
> and VSM, etc?
> For me it is not any longer a topic of discussion although such a
> fuzziness partly contributed to the difference between initial
> expectations towards cybernetics and systems thinking and their
> current institutional and, alas, sometimes even intellectual status.
> As I also have written earlier, I do not regard it as a topic for
> discussion. Too often in cybernetics and systems thinking the
> are recursive, or in a more straightforward form can be described as
> rediscovering the wheel.
> Coming back to the Conference Theme.
> It seems to me that an emerging new social reality in the beginning
> of 21st Century is determined by complexity (remember there are circa
> 40 definitions of that!) and recursion. It happens at all levels,
> beginning from institutions and ending with a possibility to intervene
> into the very sense of human nature thanks to biotechnology,
> nano-technology, cognitive science, etc. (NBIC).
> As usual I could write more but we all know at this forum what stands
> behind those two terms.
> In my opinion, if anybody wants to deal with present social issues
> then a
> title which seems relevant could be:
> Cybernetics and the world of emergence and recursion (recursivity?).
> Of course, various combinations of those terms can be used.
> Cybernetics and society of emerging properties and recursion
> Cybernetics in society of emerging properties and recursion
> Maybe recursion (recursivity) could be eliminated? It's overlapping
> complexity but not completely, at least in my opinion and having
> "cmplexity and recursion
> (recursiveness)" would be relevant to the current world.
> It is just a loose suggestion.
> Best regards, Czeslaw Mesjasz
> Assoc. Prof. dr hab. Czeslaw Mesjasz
> Cracow University of Economics
> 31-510 Krakow
> ul. Rakowicka 27
> Tel: 0-12-2935-619; Fax: 0-12-2935-067
> e-mail: [log in to unmask]
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