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UCD-STAFFORDBEER  March 2009

UCD-STAFFORDBEER March 2009

Subject:

Re: St Gallen Meeting

From:

Leonid Ototsky <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 12 Mar 2009 01:29:33 +0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (88 lines)

Thanks, Javier.
Of course it is impossible to create a "global project" founded on the VSM
but it will be cool to find any organization or may be any not too large
country which will be interested to organize now an experiment like the
old Cybersyn ! Suppose the time has come for the "second attempt" .
If so it will be a good aim for the community to PR the VSM more actively .

Leonid - http://ototsky.mgn.ru/it


> Dear Leonid:
>
> To me social structures are a label for systems that are autonomous
> and adapting but quite different from the State structure. Wiener
> spoke of a world wide State, simply because he was talking of a world
> government structure made possible by the technology to which he
> contributed a lot.
>
> Right now it would be quite difficult, politically speaking, to create
> some sort of world government. The VSM teaches us that we have to
> start with System 2 arrangements such as commercial exchanges, but at
> the same time these are counterproductive to sustainability goals.
> Creating a perfectly educated world citizen that would be willing to
> sacrifice his own consumption  based only on the knowledge of what is
> best for the world is quite distant still.
>
> Let's start suggesting a VSM inspired Nation-State Government in a
> country that is fond of being open and based on a democracy of the
> people. This is an evolutionary road which could be quite
> revolutionary given the amount of resistance it is likely to confront.
>
> I liked your explanations very much. I differ as regards to the target
> we should set, but then this is only my opinion given quite sincerely.
>
> Thank you for listening,
>
> Javier Livas
>
>
> On Mar 11, 2009, at 12:08 PM, Leonid Ototsky wrote:
>
>> Dear Colleagues,
>> Although I can to take part in the meeting only by the Internet but
>> suppose my text will be helpful for the Conference . Its title is
>> "The VSM as a foundation for  social systems"
>> http://www.ototsky.mgn.ru/it/presentations/Metaphorum2009.htm
>>
>> Best,
>> Leonid Ototsky - http://ototsky.mgn.ru/it
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org
>>
>> For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to:
>> www.platformforchange.org
>>
>> METAPHORUM eList Archive available at -
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/ucd-staffordbeer.html
>>
>> Archive of CYBCOM eList available at -
>> http://hermes.circ.gwu.edu/archives/cybcom.html
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org
>
> For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to:
> www.platformforchange.org
>
> METAPHORUM eList Archive available at -
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/ucd-staffordbeer.html
>
> Archive of CYBCOM eList available at -
> http://hermes.circ.gwu.edu/archives/cybcom.html
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org

For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to:  www.platformforchange.org

METAPHORUM eList Archive available at - https://listserv.heanet.ie/ucd-staffordbeer.html

Archive of CYBCOM eList available at - http://hermes.circ.gwu.edu/archives/cybcom.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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