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UCD-STAFFORDBEER  December 2008

UCD-STAFFORDBEER December 2008

Subject:

Re: What is the Purpose? [Was VSM4Business]

From:

"Garderen, Harold van" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 24 Dec 2008 11:00:06 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

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Parts/Attachments

text/plain (790 lines)

Hi Frank,

That is a vast addition :-) Why don't we take these list combined over to the wiki and start with creating a set of small clusters of words that are related and next draft some small para's for each cluster. That I guess will be a good start for a small article. This time not on the roots of viability but on the fruits of viability :-)

Met vriendelijke groet,
 
Harold van Garderen, PhD | OcÚ-Technologies B.V. | Senior Services Researcher | Document Services Valley
Postbus 101, 5900 MA Venlo | St. Urbanusweg 43 | The Netherlands
T +31 (0) 77 359 2446 | M +31 (0) 6 532 94 325 | G 6258 |  [log in to unmask] |  www.oce.nl |  Trade register 12002662
 
Now blogging at http://fragmentedliving.blogspot.com/
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer 
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Frank
> Sent: maandag 22 december 2008 23:07
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: What is the Purpose? [Was VSM4Business]
> 
> Hi Harold,
> I agree. One mistake I made was not to get the foundations of 
> this project laid down. I was once told a mentor of mine that 
> this was a serious flaw of mine. And I still do it!
> 
> Anyway down to basics.
> 
> What is the purpose of this project?
> 
> For me it is to introduce to businessmen and other interested 
> parties the principles and advantages of the Cybernetic 
> approach and in particular the Viable Systems Model.
> 
> What outcome do we want?
> 
> Again for me it's to see Cybernetics introduced to a much 
> wider audience and also a fertile itneraction between that 
> audience and practitioners of Cybernetics resulting in the 
> principles of Cybernetics evolving. Ok that's a bit clumsy 
> but I'm a bit rushed at the moment.
> 
> So if we clearly know what the purpose and outcome of the 
> project then this should make it easier to find key words and phrases.
> 
> Some more key words:
> 
> Balance
> 
> self correcting
> 
> co-evolving
> 
> analysis
> 
> map
> 
> redefining
> 
> communication
> 
> feedback
> 
> learning
> 
> self organising (bit dodgy this one because it's becoming a buzz word)
> 
> sensemaking
> 
> That will do for the moment.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Frank
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Garderen, Harold van" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 8:47 AM
> Subject: Re: VSM4Business
> 
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> After two days of being "off" I read some 60 messages on "how 
> to convey
> the message". Very good, this must be done in order to reach our first
> billion enthusiasts. The discussion however seems a bit an "this OR
> that" discussion, instead of the generally more fruitfull AND/AND. Can
> we somehow first come up with a list of words that seem to be 
> connected
> to the subject in todays terms and next create a few 
> sentenses that uses
> these core words while appealing to the masses?
> 
> Here is the list I picked up as words to be possibly included:
> 
> Living
> Adaptive
> Sustainable
> Resilient
> Business
> Organization
> Corporation
> 
> And the wordst to be banned (from the title, not the text probably)
> 
> Viable
> System
> Model
> 
> I may have missed a few. Please correct this list.
> 
> Harold
> 
> Now blogging at http://fragmentedliving.blogspot.com/
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
> > allenna leonard
> > Sent: maandag 22 december 2008 3:35
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: VSM4Business
> >
> > Dear All,
> >
> > 'Viable' has the advantage of being a more general term than,
> > say, profitable.  There is nothing wrong with other terms but
> > they also carry their specific contexts. 'Viable' also
> > invites analogies with other living systems.
> >
> > Allenna
> >
> >
> > --- On Sun, 12/21/08, Joseph Truss <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Joseph Truss <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Subject: Re: VSM4Business
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Date: Sunday, December 21, 2008, 7:35 PM I think the
> > currency of Bush
> > > and others using it overweighs the degradation which will
> > only occur
> > > with people who already know what viability means.  If we
> > jump on it
> > > now we might beat the crowd. 'the viable business' so far has the
> > > simplest most direct message for the business audience.
> > >
> > >  Joseph Truss
> > > Abbey North Drummers / Open Futures / Team Syntegrity AG
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Frank <[log in to unmask]>
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 3:27:37 PM
> > > Subject: Re: VSM4Business
> > >
> > >
> > > "Viable" does get to the core but unfortunately people like
> > Bush are
> > > degrading the word.
> > >
> > > Frank
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: BARRY  A CLEMSON
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 9:03  PM
> > > Subject: Re: VSM4Business
> > > I have been silent on this question of language because i
> > haven't had
> > > anything helpful to say, but I do feel the word "viable" is
> > the  best
> > > that i have heard.
> > > Perhaps viable system model is not good, but i really
> > think "viable"
> > > gets at the core idea.
> > >
> > > Barry
> > >
> > > On Dec 20, 2008, at 3:43 PM, Joseph Truss wrote:
> > >
> > > I've  noticed in the past few days that the terms viable
> > and viability
> > > are being  used by George Bush and the CEO's of the Big Three
> > > Automakers. The industry  is now on a path to 'viability'
> > based on the
> > > $14B - $17B bailout approved  yesterday in the US.
> > >
> > > How about simply:  the viable business or  the viable enterprise
> > >
> > > Alvin Toffler also used the term 'adaptive corporation'
> > >
> > >  Joseph Truss
> > > Abbey North Drummers /  Open Futures / Team Syntegrity AG
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >  From: Frank <[log in to unmask]>
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 7:36:31  AM
> > > Subject: Re: VSM4Business
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks for this  Arthur.
> > >
> > > Business Brain might indeed  appeal to managers etc.
> > >
> > > Frank
> > > ----- Original Message  -----
> > > From: Arthur Dijkstra
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 10:53  AM
> > > Subject: Re: VSM4Business
> > >
> > > How  about
> > > Organisational  Brain
> > > Or
> > > Business  Brain
> > > Or
> > > Corporate  Brain
> > >
> > > Arthur
> > >
> > > Van: Forum dedicated to the work of  Stafford Beer
> > > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Namens Joseph Truss
> > > Verzonden: vrijdag 19 december 2008  16:46
> > > Aan: [log in to unmask]
> > > Onderwerp: Re:  VSM4Business
> > >
> > > 'Operational  sustainability'
> > > 'The viability of  business - the business of viability'
> > > 'Adaptability,  sustainability, viability'
> > >
> > > "Add Beer to your  bottom line!"
> > >
> > >
> > > Joseph  Truss
> > > Abbey North Drummers / Open Futures / Team Syntegrity  AG
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > From: Paul Stokes <[log in to unmask]>
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 8:35:32  AM
> > > Subject: Re:  VSM4Business
> > > Well I'm using  'Sustainable Ops' or
> > > 'Sustainable Operations', if that's of any use to you  folks.
> > >
> > > Paul
> > >
> > > ----- Original  Message -----
> > > From: Joseph
> > > Truss
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 5:24  AM
> > > Subject: Re:  VSM4Business
> > >
> > > Frank is that  the BOTTOM line? We do need a spanking good phrase!
> > >
> > > Joseph  Truss
> > > Abbey North Drummers / Open Futures / Team Syntegrity  AG
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > From: Frank <[log in to unmask]>
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008  8:00:47 PM
> > > Subject: Re: VSM4Business
> > > Lol  or
> > >
> > > Reaches the  Parts that Beer Reaches.
> > > ----- Original  Message -----
> > > From: Boris G Freesman,  Q.C.
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008  11:12 PM
> > > Subject: Re:  VSM4Business
> > >
> > > FREE  BEER?
> > >
> > > Boris
> > >
> > > -----  Original Message -----
> > > From: Frank
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008  6:04 PM
> > > Subject: Re:  VSM4Business
> > >
> > > Hmm yes but  it doesn't get across the idea of an
> > organisation being
> > > able to  sense internal imbalace and being able to self
> > correct so to
> > > speak in the light of knowledge of new external conditions. Thanks
> > > btw for all this and sorry for being such a pain.
> > >
> > > I need a  title that instantly draws in the
> > businessman/manager etc.
> > > Someone  who is suffering in a dysfunctional organisation
> > who will go,
> > > "Wow,  I must find out more about this!" when he reads 
> the title of
> > > the  wikispace. The title of course has to reflect very
> > pithilly what
> > > VSM  is all about.
> > > -----  Original Message -----
> > > From: Roger  Harnden
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 18,  2008 10:46 PM
> > > Subject: Re:  VSM4Business
> > >
> > > 'Organisational  viability'.
> > >
> > > Roger
> > > On  18 Dec 2008, at 22:22, Frank wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > That's  one possibility except businessmen might just say
> > "yeh, yeh,
> > > another fad". It also doesn't address the (how I see it) kernel of
> > > VSM that it's all about organisations being aware that
> > something  is
> > > wrong and then responding in a corrective manner. 
> Homeostasis  of a
> > > sort, I suppose with a dollop of coevolution. Or maybe 
> I've  got it
> > > all wrong.
> > >
> > > I'm  rereading Brain of the Firm and it's interesting how
> > other things
> > > now jump out of the page so to speak.
> > >
> > > Frank
> > > -----  Original Message -----
> > > From: Roger  Harnden
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Sent: Thursday,  December 18, 2008 10:03 PM
> > > Subject: Re:  VSM4Business
> > >
> > > What's  wrong with Stafford's 'science of effective  
> organisation'?
> > >
> > > Roger
> > > On  18 Dec 2008, at 21:42, Frank wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Oops  I forgot! Yeh I think Viable Systems Model is about as
> > > charismatic as cold rice  pudding.
> > >
> > > Hmm lets see. Some possible wikispace  titles
> > >
> > > Making Your Organisation Response - Able. (Not  strictly VSM but a
> > > hook
> > > nonetheless.)
> > >
> > > The  Self Aware Organisation (More on VSM lines but a
> > little too sci
> > > fi?)
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Frank
> > > -----  Original Message -----
> > > From: Holtham,  Clive
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Sent: Thursday,  December 18, 2008 6:44 PM
> > > Subject: Re:  VSM4Business
> > >
> > > I think the term VSM is to be  avoided at all costs upfront!
> > > Why not make the title  something more
> > > neutral/inspirational/controversial?
> > > Professor  Clive Holtham
> > > [log in to unmask]
> > > phone:  +44-20-7040-8622 fax: +44-20-7040-8328
> > > video:  +44-20-7786-9674
> > > Short  CV:
> > > http://www.staff.city.ac.uk/c.w.holtham/holthamcv.htm
> > > Map: http://www.cass.city.ac.uk/about/location/index.html
> > > Cass Business School, City of  London,  106 Bunhill Row,
> > LONDON EC1Y
> > > 8TZ
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > From: Frank  [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > > Sent: 16 December 2008  21:44
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: VSM4Business
> > > Everyone,
> > > I  really like VSM4Business but I don't think I can change
> > the  title
> > > of the Wiki because it will affect the URL.
> > >
> > > So  I have two options:
> > >
> > > 1)  Scrap the existing VSMforbusiness and start with new titel.
> > > Fairly easy as not much has been done yet
> > >
> > > 2)  Leave it but refer to the Wiki as VSM4Business in any
> > emails  etc.
> > > Problem is that it could be confusing.
> > >
> > > I  think I'll go for option 1 unless anyone has any ideas.
> > I'll  leave
> > > a decision until tomorrow.
> > >
> > > Frank
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >  For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org For the Metaphorum
> > > Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to:
> > > www.platformforchange.org METAPHORUM eList  Archive available at -
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> > > eList available at - 
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> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > avast!  Antivirus: Inbound message clean.
> > > Virus Database (VPS): 081218-0,  18/12/2008 Tested on: 18/12/2008
> > > 21:38:21 avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL  Software.
> > >
> > >
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> > > avast!  Antivirus: Inbound message clean.
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> > > 22:16:34 avast!  - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > > avast!  Antivirus: Inbound message clean.
> > > Virus  Database (VPS): 081218-0, 18/12/2008 Tested on: 18/12/2008
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> > >
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> > >
> > > avast!  Antivirus: Inbound message clean.
> > > Virus  Database (VPS): 081218-0, 18/12/2008 Tested on: 18/12/2008
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> > >
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> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > Ask  a question on any topic and get answers from real
> > people. Go to
> > > Yahoo!
> > >
> > 
> Answers.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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> > >
> > > Be  smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving
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> > > the  boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail
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> > > avast!  Antivirus: Inbound message clean.
> > > Virus  Database (VPS): 081219-0, 19/12/2008 Tested on: 20/12/2008
> > > 12:59:18 avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL  Software.
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> > > Environment (MCWE) go to:
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> > >
> > 
> http://hermes.circ.gwu.edu/archives/cybcom.html~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > ________________________________
> > >  Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of  Flickr!
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >  For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org For the Metaphorum
> > > Collaborative  Working Environment (MCWE) go to:
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> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ===================================================
> > >
> > > BARRY A CLEMSON
> > > [log in to unmask]
> > >
> > > 757-692-6673
> > >
> > > Cybernetica Press at www.cyberneticapress.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "It's not how much you do - it's how much love you put in 
> it.... Do
> > > small  things with great love."
> > >             --- Mother Teresa  ---
> > >
> > > The true warrior may be killed, but he can not be defeated.
> > >
> > >    --- my paraphrase of Sensei Hamada ---
> > >
> > > And peace rolled down like a mighty river.
> > >        -- Inspired by the prophet Amos  5:24--
> > >
> > > "An enemy is a person whose story we  have not heard."
> > >            -- Gene Knudsen Hoffman  --
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> This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for use by 
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> exempt from disclosure under applicable law.
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> responsible for 
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> Thank you for your co-operation.
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> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org
> 
> For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to: 
> www.platformforchange.org
> 
> METAPHORUM eList Archive available at - 
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/ucd-staffordbeer.html
> 
> Archive of CYBCOM eList available at - 
> http://hermes.circ.gwu.edu/archives/cybcom.html
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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> 
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean.
> Virus Database (VPS): 081221-0, 21/12/2008
> Tested on: 22/12/2008 20:19:56
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2008 ALWIL Software.
> http://www.avast.com
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org
> 
> For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) 
> go to:  www.platformforchange.org
> 
> METAPHORUM eList Archive available at - 
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/ucd-staffordbeer.html
> 
> Archive of CYBCOM eList available at - 
> http://hermes.circ.gwu.edu/archives/cybcom.html
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> 

This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for use by the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law.

If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.

If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone and with a 'reply' message.

Thank you for your co-operation.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org

For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to:  www.platformforchange.org

METAPHORUM eList Archive available at - https://listserv.heanet.ie/ucd-staffordbeer.html

Archive of CYBCOM eList available at - http://hermes.circ.gwu.edu/archives/cybcom.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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