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UCD-STAFFORDBEER  December 2008

UCD-STAFFORDBEER December 2008

Subject:

Re: US carmakers need to be viable for bailout assistance.

From:

allenna leonard <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Wed, 3 Dec 2008 06:30:30 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (160 lines)

Dear Arthur, Joe, Roger...

If we apply VSM thinking metaphorically, we see that the domestic US (and Canadian) car makers as a big part of the recursion of the economy we call manufacturing. For each actual employee of the big three, it is estimated that there are seven other jobs in related parts and services. They are not equally troubled - Ford is actually making a profit. But, they are so interconnected that if one goes down, all three go down.  All the car makers (including Toyota and Honda) have seen a severe sales drop due to lack of credit and confidence in the economy.  This has a knock-on effect on state and provincial sales tax revenues...

So, the question isn't whether they deserve to collapse but whether the rest of the economy would be better served by putting them in hospital
and 'saving the leg' or amputating it and applying compensatory strategies
elsewhere in the economy.

At the beginning of WWII, it took only six months to retool the car makers to building military transport. Manufacturing techniques and processes are a lot more complex now but they could retool to build hybrids and electric cars, buses, etc. A VSM diagnosis focused on S3,S4 and especially S5 within the automotive manufacturing sector would provide guidance but not unless it was accompanied by serious levels of government re-regulation including higher CAFE standards and provisions like those in the UK that would apply a steeply graduated tax on engine size to wean the market off gas guzzlers.  

It would be a good topic for a Syntegration...

Best,
Allenna   


--- On Wed, 12/3/08, Roger Harnden <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> From: Roger Harnden <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: US carmakers need to be viable for bailout assistance.
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 2:55 AM
> Come on guys - whether we like the consequences or not there
> SHOULD be such a collapse, Bush's criminality was
> totally underwritten by an acceptance of the system to allow
> a. his rape of other cultures and economies, and b. his
> deflecting vast sums of public monies to private companies
> and individuals. The sad thing from an English point of view
> is to note that the UK deficit in trade, is now only second
> to US, and event larger in terms of ratio. The net effect is
> unthought statements (in UK) that we do not have the money
> to further invest in social infrastructure. What a joke.
> 
> The whole thing has to implode and there will be waiting
> predators on the sidelines cheering on the collapse. Two
> bankrupt cultures and economies.
> 
> Roger
> On 2 Dec 2008, at 22:54, Joseph Truss wrote:
> 
> > 
> >  Hi Russell,
> > 
> > In an earlier post, maybe on wiki, you have a single
> buried sentence that asks if the possibility of U.S.
> currency collapse can be contemplated. I think it is as
> probable as not and have been following many threads that
> lead to that unimaginable outcome - I am not predicting it
> but it is not irrational to give credence to models that
> have predicted many of the recent unthinkable outcomes we
> now live with as if business as usual. We live at a time
> when the unimaginable scenario of last week becomes the
> generally accepted condition of today so quickly that our
> lacunas have lacunas in that we still cannot accept that we
> must think of the unthinkable if we are to be anywhere
> prepared.  The trick is to metabolise the negativity into
> action and to maintain oneself as a positive attractor - for
> surely negative thinking will eventually create what it
> fears most, as Luc has pointed out as well. I feel that
> engaging our bio-circuitry in the possibility of massive
> disruption is necessary but not for the faint of heart.  If
> desperation ensues from engagement it's probably not
> worth engaging. There are certainly large system disaster
> scenarios that apply more now than ever before.  To my
> brothers and sisters in Africa and in many other developing
> countries, living with disruptions of electricity, water,
> transportation, etc. are a way of daily life, hard but
> survivable, for any large modern centre such disruptions are
> not livable and complete collapse of social stability is
> just another predictable but unthinkable scenario. Anyway, I
> wanted you to know that you are not alone if you contemplate
> such possibilities, and I understand why these discussions
> are not more central to the crises we face and imagine we
> face.
> > 
> > Wintry warmth from Up-Over.
> > 
> > 
> > Joseph Truss
> > Abbey North Drummers / Open Futures / Team Syntegrity
> AG
> > 
> > 
> > From: R Clemens <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 3:08:52 PM
> > Subject: US carmakers need to be viable for bailout
> assistance.
> > 
> > Well, they have used the "V" word -- but,
> alas, I somehow doubt they mean it in the manner of the VSM.
> > 
> > US carmakers in new bail-out plea
> > 
> > . . .
> > 
> > But the White House has already expressed scepticism
> about the bail-out plans.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > "We are sticking to our guns that the companies
> have to prove that they are viable before taxpayer dollars
> should be given to them," said White House spokeswoman
> Dana Perino. [emphasis added]
> > 
> > . . .
> > 
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7761015.stm
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV.
> Enter now.
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> > Now with a new friend-happy design! Try the new Yahoo!
> Canada
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