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UCD-STAFFORDBEER  December 2008

UCD-STAFFORDBEER December 2008

Subject:

Re: Modeling Emergent Structure

From:

"Garderen, Harold van" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:30:48 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (171 lines)

Gents and Ladies,

Doing a Synthegration will undoubtedly lead to good results, but as the
Wiki stats show: we are talking to ourselves.

Why not attempt to attract new crowd first and get them involved. 

A suggestion: today I recieved the following article from McKinsey: 

http://www.mckinseyquarterly.com/Strategy/Growth/Creative_destruction_an
d_the_financial_crisis_An_interview_with_Richard_Foster_2268

After reading I wrote the following letter to the editor:

-----------------------------------------------------------------
It's very good to see Schumpeter being rediscovered in the public eye.
Ofcourse many will claim in retrospect that he was never out of sight,
but history, at least the last 40 years, suggests this was mostly lip
service, not acceptance of the message. As Cybernetics learned since the
'50's: the purpose of a system is what it does. And the financial market
did, as neatly indicated in this article, nothing more that purposedly
acting outside the scope of the regulated areas.

This poses the next question: why are regulators behind reality and only
regulate when things go out of control. Haven't they learned how to
regulate? How is that possible with all scientific progress since
Schumpeter? Only mentioning Prigogine's dissipative systems, complexity
and chaos theory, Stafford Beers' Viable Systems Model, Maturana's
autopoiesis, Checklands' Soft Systems Model, Senge's Learning
Organization and Stuart Kaufmanns' work on co-evolution should be
sufficient for regulators to learn and realize regulation in real time
instead of after the fact. The same techologies developed for fighting
terrorism can be effectively applied for monitoring the development of
values systems and detect weak signals of non-complience as Dave Snowden
and his crew at Cognitive Edge have shown.

Now back to today's article. The funny thing is that Schumpeter himself
identified the descructive forces with INNOVATION. Innovation is,
according to him, not associated with new ideas that get new business
started - as this article suggest - instead it is identical, or a least
strongly associated to the creative destructive forces external to the
existing players: innovation as a force comes from the outside, not from
within.

We seem to have forgotten about this since 1960, but destruction and the
emergence of new (human) value systems are at the core of innovation.
INVENTION, despite its press, is, will and never has been the key factor
in innovation. ACCEPTANCE by customers (the one who pays the bill) and
increasingly users (the ones that have to use the product or consume the
service) are in the drivers seat. In that sense the role of centralized
R&D departments has been oversold the last 50 years.

At its core, the same holds for transaction-focussed services industries
like banking and insurance. There invention is associated with new
financial instruments like mentioned derivatives. Unlike product
industries the R&D function of the banking systems is far more
discributed and thus it is hard today to point to "the guilty". 

Regulating discributed processes seen not the most top-of-mind concern
of regulators today and in the past, but it is - in my opinion exactly -
where complexity based holistic science can be applied very effectively.
Please reread mentioned literature with the perspective glasses on that
innovation is related to the co-creation of new (human) value systems
and how these processes can regulated from WITHIN the system. Yes
within, please reread Beer. 
--------------------------------------------------------------

Why not start with 15 of us writing their views too so that no-one at
McKinsey quarterly can deny that something has been missing from the
debate lately .... :-)

Are we afraid of going public?

Harold
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer 
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of 
> BARRY A CLEMSON
> Sent: dinsdag 9 december 2008 21:26
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Modeling Emergent Structure
> 
> This note was stimulated by Boris' earlier comments about 
> Prigogine. I hadn't thought about Prigogine in some time, but 
> this may be an important avenue for us.
> 
> Suppose we used the modeling technique Stafford describes in 
> Decision and Control to apply Prigogine's dissipative 
> structures framework to our current situation?
> 
> Twenty eight years ago I tried to do that for the individual 
> and the school. The effort was only so-so successful but at 
> that time I didn't have colleagues who knew much about 
> systems/cybernetics and no one at all that knew about Prigogine.
> 
> I just did a half hour search of the Web and it seems that 
> there has been some work applying Prigogine's theory to 
> social systems. One of the authors I found is Immanuel 
> Wallerstein, who also predicts an imminent collapse (see 
> http://www.agenceglobal.com/article.asp? 
> id=1766).  The Metaphorum group could, I suspect, generate a 
> very useful model in fairly short order, one that would 
> provide us with (at
> least) provocative and useful hypotheses about what is likely 
> to happen or what might work as a response to the coming collapse.
> 
> What about it? Shall we try?
> 
> Barry
> 
> 
> ===================================================
> 
> BARRY A CLEMSON
> [log in to unmask]
> 
> 757-692-6673
> 
> Cybernetica Press at www.cyberneticapress.com
> 
> 
> 
> "It's not how much you do - it's how much love you put in 
> it.... Do small things with great love."
>              --- Mother Teresa ---
> 
> The true warrior may be killed, but he can not be defeated.
>     --- my paraphrase of Sensei Hamada ---
> 
> And peace rolled down like a mighty river.
>         -- Inspired by the prophet Amos 5:24--
> 
> 
> "An enemy is a person whose story we have not heard."
>             -- Gene Knudsen Hoffman --
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org
> 
> For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) 
> go to:  www.platformforchange.org
> 
> METAPHORUM eList Archive available at - 
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/ucd-staffordbeer.html
> 
> Archive of CYBCOM eList available at - 
> http://hermes.circ.gwu.edu/archives/cybcom.html
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> 

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