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UCD-STAFFORDBEER  December 2008

UCD-STAFFORDBEER December 2008

Subject:

Re: Selling Cybernetics to Business and Managers

From:

Frank <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 10 Dec 2008 00:06:07 -0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (188 lines)

Dear Leonid,
critical mass maybe is the best bet. State involvement? Hmmm, you dont have 
to look far for what happens when the State gets involved.

Frank

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Leonid Ototsky" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: Selling Cybernetics to Business and Managers


Dear Frank,
Suppose there must be activities of many types "to provide the VSM" . Hope
a "critical mass" for a breakthrough  of the VSM is developing .
And a bottom-up activity is only a one side (although is very important).
For example now there is an activity in Russia for the Regions level
(Moscow Region for example -
http://www.ototsky.mgn.ru/it/papers/nis-metaphorum2007.pdf ).
Also I have sent a PR of the VSM to this conference ->
http://www.paradiso-fp7.eu/conference.php .
But it is very poor for from the "critical mass" . Suppose it will be very
important for the community try to find an implementation at a State level
as it was in the CyberSyn Project. It will be a great example for the
World.
Suppose it is a great task for the community to find such State ! How to
organize an integration of business with a State authorities to take
active part in implementation of the VSM ?
Now there is a new time in principle comparing the Chle's experiment to
organize a "New CyberSyn" .

Regards,
Leonid - http://ototsky.mgn.ru/it

> Dear Leonid,
> yes businesses should be aware of those global problems that impact on
> them.
> However I'm a bit wary of the missionary zeal that is becoming apparent on
> this list as regards "changing the world".
>
> I'm suspicous of the visionary trap and many brilliant thinkers succumb to
> it. I'll read book x and think wow this is good stuff, however many times
> the book is marred by the ending chapter(s) describing the author's vision
> for a better world.
>
> For those that feel that might be susceptible to this, I recommend John
> Gray's "Straw Dogs" a brilliant polemic on (I suppose) Humanism..
>
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Straw-Dogs-Thoughts-Humans-Animals/dp/1862075964/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228782266&sr=1-1
>
> I agree with you that the bottom up approach is best. I'd be tempted to
> work
> at the lowest level and see what emerges, rather than try and change
> global
> insitutions directly.
>
> Regards
>
> Frank
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Leonid Ototsky" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 6:29 PM
> Subject: Re: Selling Cybernetics to Business and Managers
>
>
> Dear Frank,
> Suppose the time has come for business people to understand global
> problems which may effect them . It is not only global financial problems
> but many others (look at my presentation to the WOSC-2008
>  - http://www.ototsky.mgn.ru/it/papers/wosc2008v2.pdf ).
> Suppose it will be good to PR the VSM as a foundation for solving their
> ndividual problems through the more Global VSM approach -
> http://www.ototsky.mgn.ru/vsm/
>
> Best Regards,
> Leonid Ototsky - http://ototsky.mgn.ru/it
>
>>
>> Dear Everyone,
>> How do we package Cybernetics in order to make it appealing to business
>> people?
>>
>> For a start maybe replacing the word "Cybernetics" with a more snappy
>> word
>> might be a good start.
>>
>> For many people the word "cybernetics" conjures up psychopathic robots
>> bent on world domination. Hardly the word to use when selling control
>> and
>> communication systems. Unless there can be found a way to make the word
>> "cybernetics" cool.
>>
>> I'll leave it at that for the moment.
>>
>> I'm going to cut back on posts to this list as I want to concentrate on
>> the Wikkispace. The aim there for me is to attract business managers and
>> others who are interested in the concepts of Cybernetics.
>>
>> Any ideas or comments on how we can sell Cybernetics would be much
>> appreciated.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Frank Wood
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org
>>
>> For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to:
>> www.platformforchange.org
>>
>> METAPHORUM eList Archive available at -
>> https://listserv.heanet.ie/ucd-staffordbeer.html
>>
>> Archive of CYBCOM eList available at -
>> http://hermes.circ.gwu.edu/archives/cybcom.html
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org
>
> For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to:
> www.platformforchange.org
>
> METAPHORUM eList Archive available at -
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/ucd-staffordbeer.html
>
> Archive of CYBCOM eList available at -
> http://hermes.circ.gwu.edu/archives/cybcom.html
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
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>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org
>
> For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to:
> www.platformforchange.org
>
> METAPHORUM eList Archive available at -
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/ucd-staffordbeer.html
>
> Archive of CYBCOM eList available at -
> http://hermes.circ.gwu.edu/archives/cybcom.html
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org

For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to: 
www.platformforchange.org

METAPHORUM eList Archive available at - 
https://listserv.heanet.ie/ucd-staffordbeer.html

Archive of CYBCOM eList available at - 
http://hermes.circ.gwu.edu/archives/cybcom.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org

For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to:  www.platformforchange.org

METAPHORUM eList Archive available at - https://listserv.heanet.ie/ucd-staffordbeer.html

Archive of CYBCOM eList available at - http://hermes.circ.gwu.edu/archives/cybcom.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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