Cool, Harold !
Who will organize such Open Community ?
It will be a great experiment "to promote" the McCulloch's "redundancy"
which was used by Stafford at the System-5 level.
There is a new possibility now in our "Web Era" try to implement this in
the "VSM Society" .

Leonid - http://ototsky.mgn.ru/it

> Very well said. The way Guru's try to change the world never worked. Sad
> for Stafford c.s., but given it was even true for guys like Hitler
> eventually, even the most powerful can't.
>
> So what works? Well, to me it seems that "bottom up" has a better
> chance. Look at Gates/Microsoft. They started at the bottom, their stuff
> spread worldwide quickly. They were no guru's until AFTER the fact and
> NEVER managed to change the world they created again ....
>
> I've said it more than once: why not start at the bottom: small tools,
> small applications, WIDE diversity, let 100 zillion flowers grow in SMB
> organizations. Forget the ugly behemoths, spread globally, become
> viruslike, go grassroots, just like linux, xampp, but then for the
> management of self-control. Document cases: no just technically, but
> also process and spam it to find fertile ground elsewhere. Until we
> reach the tipping point.
>
> Open source is not just a technical trick for code, it can also be used
> to build an application-network, zillions of places where people play
> with the tools, the stories, improve, steal, borrow, give, etc. All that
> knowledge needs to be open source too. Have a look at how
> www.cognitive-edge.com approaches this.
>
> Hey! We are the complexity masters right! If WE can't bring about change
> to a small complex system like the world, who will believe us when we
> say the world needs to change. We ARE the world, IN the world.
>
> Harold
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> 	From: Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of William
> Livingston
> 	Sent: maandag 6 oktober 2008 11:09
> 	To: [log in to unmask]
> 	Subject: Stafford Beer] and Oracle
>
>
>
> 	Thanks for providing another round of data points about the
> sociology of inter-domain technology transfer. What is significant about
> the vast collection of these experiences of passive/aggressive
> rejections, over the ages, is that the creation of this ubiquitous
> response remains undiscussed and unexamined. Where is the clarion call
> saying "Hey, anybody see a pattern here? How come there are no contrary
> examples?" None.
>
>
>
> 	Decades ago I made it a point to visit with the living greats in
> systems think, including Stafford. Near the end all would say something
> to the effect that - "Although my concepts have not yet taken hold to
> any commensurate extent, in a hundred years or so society would
> gradually get the message and the discipline of systems think would
> become a cultural norm."  I noted these mentors, and their mentors, had
> tormented endings - to a man.
>
>
>
> 	There is absolutely no shred of evidence that, given time,
> society will gravitate towards what's best for its survival and
> advancement. There is no compelling force towards enlightenment-based
> action. Anyone can find the same miserable pattern of sabotage in the
> literature of a century ago - Thorstein Veblen being but one example.
> What is striking is that the behavioral attributes of institutions are
> exactly the same, century in and century out - oblivious to
> circumstances. The institutional rejection of VSM, wholesale, is but one
> instance of the institutional aversion to intelligence-informed
> management. Friday, USA citizens bailed out Wall St. to the tune of a
> trillion dollars without once investigating by what means this global
> emergency manifested, unforeseeable, overnight.
>
>
>
> 	"Oh, you had no idea on Friday when you reported solid financial
> strength that by Monday your institution would be down $300 billion? No
> problem. Here's money for you to keep doing whatever you were doing.
> After all, your $400 trillion in unregulated derivatives makes out
> national budget look parsimonious."
>
>
>
> 	In view of this stunning measurement of institutional ideology,
> it just doesn't seem likely that promoting VSM in the ways and means it
> has been promoted will fare any better in the future. But, that's
> another undiscussable.
>
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