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Subject: Re: Life force?
From: Searles O'Dubhain <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Scholars and students of Old Irish <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:44:02 +0100
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On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 00:49:07 +0800, Neil McLeod 
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>Searles O'Dubhain wrote:
>>
>> I'm not confused at all. I'm quite familiar with the three Brķatharogam.  It's 
true 
>> that McManus has emphasized the alliteration in teh lists that he has 
provided 
>> however those are not the only lists as shown by the Annectdota and the 
>> Auraicept to name only two. 
>
>Well, you look confused to me! The list we are talking about occur 
>mainly in the Auraicpt, and McManus's edition makes use of that 
>material. There are thee lists, and they are all in McManus'es edition.
>

McManus EDITED the lists that I'm seeing to produce only the two word 
kennings without the accompanying materials. That's what I'm saying.  You 
seem fixed on one POV only but I'm certain that's just the way I'm taking your 
responses which ignore the editing.

>> In those lists the alliteration is only evident in the 
>> list of mac ind Oic 
>
>Yes, that is what I said. It's what McManus says as well.
>

I'll revisit the source material when I get home and not the edited list.

>> and not in every line of that.
>
>The only missing link is the single instance I referred to in my 
>previous post.
>

It did not seem that way to me but I was reading the information very early in 
the morning. As I said, I'll revisit the source materials in a few hours and if 
necessary post the lines here.

>
>> See the readings from BB, Auraicept and the Anecdota.
>
>The Book of Ballynote contains the Auraicept. McManus takes account of 
>it just as he does the other MSS of the Auraicept.
>

The Auraicept materials by Calder include other sources: LL and YBL, as well 
as a manuscrippt from the Eggerton Collection.

>>>> fethal 
>>>> can mean ...
>>> DIL does not support your contention that the word 'fethal' can mean any 
>>> of the following: 'declare; characteristic;  shield; appurtenances; 
>>> Divine; service; pagan; attestation; valuable; distinctive'
>
>> I got the list of words provided above *directly* from the eDIL.
>
>They are not given as definitions of 'fethal'. For example, one of the 
>meanings that is given is 'halidom'. DIL explains that what they have in 
>mind is "an object regarded as sacred, and sometimes used for swearing 
>on, in Christian lit. esp. of the appertenances of Divine service." This 
>does not mean that 'fethal' can mean "divine" or "service" anymore than 
>it means that 'fethal' can mean "used" or "sometimes".
>
>Neil

The words provided are head words meant to convey an understanding of the 
meaning of fethal. The idea of sacred, Pagan, halidom, divine and service are 
closely associated with the use of this word and certainly give one many 
things to consider when seeking to comprehend what could have been meant 
by the kenning itself. To unduly limit one's search for understanding is a 
mistake in this case. Much is being overlooked from the bastions of academia 
to the point that the body survives at times but the patient dies. There is a 
life to language and meaning in poetry that goes beyond grammar, punctuation 
and dry consideration. One should see the images and hear the music as well 
as dissecting the participals and conjugating the verbs. That is the sense iin 
which these kennings were used and offered by the Filidh.

Searles O'Dubhain

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