LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.5

Help for UCD-STAFFORDBEER Archives


UCD-STAFFORDBEER Archives

UCD-STAFFORDBEER Archives


UCD-STAFFORDBEER@LISTSERV.HEANET.IE


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

UCD-STAFFORDBEER Home

UCD-STAFFORDBEER Home

UCD-STAFFORDBEER  February 2008

UCD-STAFFORDBEER February 2008

Subject:

Re: What organizations use VSM?

From:

Angela Espinosa <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 6 Feb 2008 10:49:13 -0000

Content-Type:

multipart/mixed

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (64 lines) , text/plain (10 lines)

Stuart:
I do like you asking the question because it is a relevant question. Many people has criticized the VSM as being a difficult to understand and use tool -which is true to some extent- and many people who have 'used' it have mostly used it -as you say- for diagnostic purposes. There is evidence that it is a very powerful diagnostic tool.
Nevertheless to re-organise a business using the VSM criteria has happened less often but has happened and some of the experiences have been reported in academic publications. After Stafford used it fully in Chile -and in other situations - R Espejo and M. Schwaninger published in 1989 a book on 'Interpretations and Applications on the VSM' that collects several experiences -some partial but a few complete and very exciting applications of a few fully 'VSM operating' companies-. Then in 1993 their book on 'Organisational Fitness: Corporate Effectiveness through Management Cybernetics' also present some very interesting cases of VSM supporting complete transformations; the cases reported in both books happened mostly outside the UK - 'nobody in a prophet in their own land', we say in Spanish. Before he died, Stafford was working on another book on consultancy projects he did that were never published: those included other cases of using VSM and the manuscripts are still with Allenna/Joe and Chris. Allenna herself has leaded several consultancy projects on applications of the VSM.
For about 10 years, I used extensively the VSM in consultancy projects in Colombia for the national government and there are several publications on most of them: The VSM was used extensively to lead organisational change at institutional and governmental level.
In the last five years I have been working with Jon Walker in applications of the VSM in cooperatives -and more recently in organisations developing cooperative work towards sustainability-. He did a full application at SUMA -a whole food coop in the north of England- that fully transformed itself using the VSM -during the 1990's. In the process we have been researching precisely the question you asked; who is using the VSM -and Beer's work- in sustainability? I currently have four doctoral students using the VSM in different organisations and developing new methodologies and analytical tools. A desire to answer this question has inspired the topic of the next Syntegration we are inviting to, this June, in Sweden. 
So far, I know that John Clarke has done a lot of work in South Africa using VSM ideas. Gerard Midgley has done applications in indigenous tribes in New Zeeland. Ralph E-Türke is doing applications in communities in Africa. Jon and I are doing an application in an eco-village in Ireland.
Other Metaphorum members have also used it extensively: A. Moscardini has used it in Russia as a consultant and with his doctoral students (Leonie S. has done a lot of work with VSM to support the peace process in Sri Lanka, Andre S. to analyse the economy in Ukraine). Javier Livas has used it with the Mexican Government at several levels. Luc Hoebeke also has used it widely in Belgium -and other countries- as a consultant. S Brewis has done a full application in BT; Patrick Hoverstadt uses it in consultancy in the UK.  Dough Haynes and his team at LJMU used it also widely as consultants and academically. And surely, -and hopefully- each of the Metaphorum member would have their own story to tell on how they have used or are using the VSM. 
Still your question is relevant as many of these stories are not widely known or may not have resulted in organisations 'adopting the VSM criteria to re-organise themselves'. This may leave some people fearing that 'Beer's time is past and that the moss is growing over one of the rocks of cybernetic thinking the VSM'. 
I am more optimistic and feel that lots of what he seeded is now re-growing, slowly but clearly and the potential for insightful applications of the VSM is as exciting as ever. We do need much more of 'complete applications' not just the diagnosis but a real transformation happening- and more reporting on those to fully develop this community.
I'd still like to hear what other members have to say regarding their own experiences using the VSM.
Angela Espinosa


-----Original Message-----
From: Forum dedicated to the work of Stafford Beer [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Roger Harnden
Sent: 05 February 2008 22:23
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: What organizations use VSM?

Stuart, there is nothing wrong with the question.

There are other initiatives, such as Angela Espinosa and Jon Walker  
with Co-ops, and Raul Espejo through his company, Syncho, UK.

I suggest you contact Fredmund Malik, MZSG.  Your best way through to  
him are probably, Martin Pfiffner ([log in to unmask]) anbd Karl- 
Heinz Oeller ([log in to unmask]). Also contact Ralf Eckhard  
Türke at MZSG. He is using the tool in exciting projects in Africa and  
is very approachable.

Joe Truss and Chris Cullen are working on AIds projects in Africa, but  
I don't know whether or not they use VSM. They both set up Team  
Syntegrity Inc with Stafford. The organisation is now under the  
control of MZSG, but there is a discrete entity doing well in USA.  
Joe, Chirs or Allenna Leonard can give you further details,

Roger
On 4 Feb 2008, at 18:43, Stuart Umpleby wrote:

> Are any organizations currently using the VSM for their org. structure
> charts?  If so, which ones?  My impression is that the VSM is
> primarily a diagnostic tool used by consultants.  Who is using the
> VSM, for what, with what effect?  Sorry for such a fundamental
> question.  Please correct me.
>
> -- 
> Stuart Umpleby, Research Program in Social and Organizational Learning
> 2033 K Street NW, Suite 230, The George Washington University,
> Washington, DC 20052
> www.gwu.edu/~umpleby, tel. 202-994-1642, fax 202-994-5284
>
> For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org
> For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to:  www.platformforchange.org
>

For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org
For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to:  www.platformforchange.org

For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org
For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to:  www.platformforchange.org





***************************************************************************************** To view the terms under which this email is distributed, please go to http://www.hull.ac.uk/legal/email_disclaimer.html ***************************************************************************************** For more information go to: www.metaphorum.org For the Metaphorum Collaborative Working Environment (MCWE) go to: www.platformforchange.org

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

September 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
August 2017
May 2017
November 2016
October 2016
July 2016
June 2016
March 2016
November 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTSERV.HEANET.IE

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager