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CELTIC-L  February 2008

CELTIC-L February 2008

Subject:

Re: Insular Celtic DNA

From:

Kenneth Smith <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

CELTIC-L - The Celtic Culture List.

Date:

Fri, 8 Feb 2008 10:05:40 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (168 lines)

A Fhióna, I don't really know how to answer that question, but I 
think if your bank account can stand the hit, pay for as much 
testing as you can reasonably afford. Then do other testing as 
soon as you can. As a male, I have the privilege of being able to 
pay for both Y-chromosome and X-chromosome testing, so just like 
divorce lawyers regard us as target rich subjects, so do the DNA 
testing companies!! I paid for a 37 marker test, and the 
information it has provided has only whetted my appetite to know 
more! I followed that up with a "deep-clade" test which confirmed 
that I was "R1b1c" which further clarified my initial results, 
which were "R1b".


Oh well, it was a feeble attempt at posting over values from a 
spreadsheet, so it didn't go through in a manner for easy 
comparison, so here are the values in a different format:

Colla Uais:                Me:

DYS393      13          13
DYS390      24          24
DYS19        14          14
DYS391      10          11
DYS385a    11          11
DYS385b    14          14
DYS426      12          12
DYS388      12          12
DYS439      12          13
DYS389i     13          13
DYS392      13          13
DYS389ii    30          29
DYS458     18          18
DYS459a     9           9
DYS459b   10           9
DYS455     11          11
DYS454     11          11
DYS447     25          25
DYS437     15          15
DYS448     19          19
DYS449     30          30
DYS464a   15          15
DYS464b   15          15
DYS464c   17          17
DYS464d   17          17

Conclusions:

1) I am from the same population as Colla Uais by the markers 
determined to be the Y-chromosome characteristics as determined by 
the geneticists on this project;

2) Since my lineage **seems**  to be more from Ireland than 
Scotland, at least as far as I can determine, it appears that I am 
from the descendants he sired in Eire before establishing his 
realm in Alba;

3) I am exceedingly close, in fact so close as to raise one's 
eyebrows a good bit when considering the antiquity of this 
individual (325 A.D.!!);

4) There is a genetic distance of three (3) (see markers 391, 439, 
& 389ii) for crying out loud!! And across this time span 
too--That's very close!;

5) Based on this genetic distance, I think it reasonable to 
conclude that I am somehow related, perhaps even closely related.

I am a neophyte in terms of understanding the particularities of 
genetics, and in this case the subject of genetic distance is 
apropos. For instance, DYS439 is known to be a "fast moving" or 
"mutating" marker, and a distance of one (1) at this marker is 
surprising for this distance in time. If I am not mistaken, there 
is but a slight genetic distance on the Y-chromosome between 
myself and Colla Uais, and as another site stated, Colla Uais is 
the great, great grandson of Conn of the Hundred Battles, High 
King of Eire. If I recall correctly, and I may not recall 
correctly, the descendants of Conn were dislodged from their place 
of authority by the O'Neills.

So, I really don't know what this means as I am certainly no 
expert, but it is certainly quite fun to compare the numbers.

When I began this DNA genetic search, I started with almost no 
information, only with a statement from my deceased father that we 
were Irish, but he was referring to his paternal grandmother, a 
Pendergrass, not his grandfather or the paternal line of our 
family. Our paternal name is 'Smith' which is not Irish, thus my 
confusion. I have confirmed that I am related to almost no Smiths 
currently in DNA databases. I paid for a DNA test of my 
Y-chromosome, and at a minimum it confirms that I come from a 
historically Celtic population, and to a certain extent that is 
good enough for me.  I must confess that I am greatly relieved 
that I am not a Saxon since I have long identified with Irish 
history.  I need to pay for some additional tests, and a 
mitochondrial DNA test will establish the lineage of my mother 
(who was fair-skinned, prone to freckle in direct sunlight, and 
had beautiful auburn colored hair, may God rest her soul...).  I 
highly suspect I already know the answer that test will provide, 
as the chances are that my X-chromosome is from the "H" 
mitochondrial haplogroup, which is predominant on the Atlantic 
coast of Europe, including most of Eire, Alba, and Britain, and is 
also widely acknowledged to be historically Celtic. A test by 
ethnoancestry.com will provide more specific testing on the 
Y-chromosome which other companies do not yet provide.

None of this suffices for a paper-trail family history which 
establishes one's historical family identity and origin.  I have 
none of that. I can trace my paternal line only back as far as 
South Carolina where my great, great, grandfather was born. I have 
no indication how our pathernal name was changed from whatever it 
was to "Smith"or why?  I highly suspect one of my paternal 
forebears, if from Ireland, wished to hide his identity from the 
British and escaped to the colonies in the late 1600s. My family 
informs me that one of our great grandfathers (prior to the son 
born in 1823 in South Carolina) was a Colonel in the Continental 
Army, but I cannot confirm that yet.

Cionaodh



----- Original Message ----- 
> --- Kenneth Smith <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
.......

>> I found this at http://www.isogg.org/famousdna.htm,
>> scroll down to "Colla Uais-father of the clans":
>>
>> "A High King of Ireland, Colla seized Ulster and
>> then took his followers to Scotland around 325AD.
>> His descendants, Fergus, Loarn and Angus (sons of
>> Erc) became the "founder" lines for the Scottish
>> kingdom of Dalriada circa 465AD (Source article).
>> Mark E. MacDonald, the National Historian for Clan
>> Donald and Director of the DNA project, has deduced
>> Colla's haplotype based on DNA results from many
>> various Scottish clan DNA projects."
>>
>> These are his markers as determined by geneticists:
>>
>> DYS393=13, DYS390=24, DYS19=14, DYS391=10,
>> DYS385a=11, DYS385b=14, DYS426=12, DYS388=12,
>> DYS439=12, DYS389i=13, DYS392=13, DYS389ii=30,
>> DYS458=18, DYS459a=9, DYS459b=10, DYS455=11,
>> DYS454=11, DYS447=25, DYS437=15, DYS448=19,
>> DYS449=30, DYS464a=15, DYS464b=15, DYS464c=17,
>> DYS464d=17
>>
>> These are mine:
>>
>>       393 390 19 391 385a 385b 426 388 439 389-1 392
>> 389-2 458 459a 459b 455 454 447 437 448 449 464a
>> 464b 464c 464d
>>       13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 13 13 13 29 18 9 9 11
>> 11 25 15 19 30 15 15 17 17
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>      Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
>
> http://www.flickr.com/gift/ 

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