But he is not sitting in the lotus position, he is simply sitting on the
ground. His legs are not even crossed.:
Furthermore, his arms are in the primitive version of the orans position
which can be seen on a number of other figures on the Gundestrup cauldron.
Sometimes they are holding emblems, sometimes they are not. This position
can also be seen on the rock art from Val Camonica where other "Cernunnos"
figures are depicted -- one whose arms are also in the orans position and
has a torc and what is believed to be a horned serpent.
The orans position was slightly changed and was depicted in early
Christianity, notably in the catacombs at Rome.
The image of Orpheus as the charmer of animals (by his music) in later
Roman provincial art has neither the lotus position nor the orans position
as can be seen on this coin of Antoninus Pius from Alexandria where he is
seated on a rock and playing his lyre:
The Thracian artist gives an allusion to Orpheus, but is not exactly
depicting him and the heraldic content of this plate is visible in the
confronted beasts and in the image of Taras riding the dolphin as on this
coin of Taras:
This might be close to the original depiction as later depiction on the
coins have him holding various objects (to express different things about
the city, presumably). Most of the earlier coins has him with outstretched
arms; with one hand on the dolphin, or, rarely, with one hand behind and
grasping a cuttlefish.
Kaul's suggestion that the figure is Arion is not evidenced by this coin
of Brundisium where Arion is also seen holding his lyre and holding a
figure of Nike (victory):
Or this coin of Septimius Severus from Chalkis where he is seen with the
dolphin and his lyre.:
There is another depiction of Arion on the dolphin on a coin from
Methymna, Lesbos, (5th cent B.C) but, again, he has his lyre and is
dressed in a long chiton and a cloak. (no picture on the web)
> So, you're saying it is pure coincidence that the deity on the
> Gundestrop cauldron and the images of Shiva discovered in Mohenjo
> Daro and Harrupa in the lotus position and accompanied by animals
> and that these images refer to a different deity entirely?
> It has been awhile, but I have studied the Vedic similarities of
> Irish culture. I find it difficult to believe there is no
> connection between the deity referred to as "Cernunnos" and the
> depictions of Shiva previously referenced, especially in lieu of
> the other distant yet similar aspects shared by the two cultures.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Hooker" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 8:59 PM
> Subject: Re: Thinking Celtic (was Re: Old list memories)
>> Hi Cionaodh,
>>> Have you or anyone else explored the very probable link of
>>> Cernunnos as depicted on the Gundestrop cauldron with other
>>> ancient horned deities from Mohenjo Daro and Haruppa from the
>>> Indus river civilizations?
>>> I have seen photographs of a horned deity, likewise sitting in
>>> lotus position, that were said to be understood as an early
>>> depiction of Shiva and also known as "Pashupati" which were
>>> unearthed in excavations of those two Indus river valley
>>> Since then I have understood "Cernunnos" to be the Celtic
>>> equivalent to this ancient Indo-European deity, and whatever
>>> name was, "Cernunnos" being a name of address as in "O Horned
>>> (Shiva is addressed as "O peaked [or "horned"] One") perhaps
>>> Celtic trinity of Esus, Teutates, Tarannos is roughly
>>> to the Hindu trinity of Shiva, Brahma, Vishnu.
>> I am not one for associating much with the Indo-Europeans, other
>> than IE
>> being a distant ancestor of the languages that we speak. Deities
>> are often
>> named after their attributes and if we name something using an
>> European language then that term can be traced back to its
>> origins through
>> language alone. This does not mean that the exact, or even
>> nature of any deity will be similar to one from another area
>> where the
>> language is part of the Indo-European group. The nature of
>> changes the attributes of deities over time and distance and
>> very often
>> what we end up with is quite different from where we started.
>> Images of bulls are common in the ancient Indus Valley and
>> looking one the
>> web I find that "Pashupati" means "Lord of cattle. There should
>> be major
>> differences in myths of domestic animals as opposed myths of
>> wild animals.
> You can unsubscribe yourself by logging in on the list archives page at
> selecting the 'join or leave Celtic-L' link and going through the
> unsubscription routine there.
John's home page:
Celtic Improvisations (the on line book):
Celtic Coin Index On Line:
You can unsubscribe yourself by logging in on the list archives page at https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=CELTIC-L&X=36DAE1476AF514EF73, selecting the 'join or leave Celtic-L' link and going through the unsubscription routine there.